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Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

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Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#11
Here is the thing about non-competes. If you are smart about it, they can be basically impossible to enforce.

If you've signed a non-compete and jump ship, you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job.

What are they going to do? Sue you for working at a company they don't know about? There is nothing they can do if you are subtle.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#12
I've worked in SV my entire career and had never even envisioned other states allowed no-compete contracts in this day and age. Everybody I know and have worked with has had multiple jobs and wouldn't have it any other way. Yet one more way CA is far in front of every other state in basic worker rights.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#13

Here is the thing about non-competes. If you are smart about it, they can be basically impossible to enforce. If you've signed a non-compete and jump ship, you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. What are they going to do? Sue you for working at a company they don't know about? There is nothing they can do if you are subtle.

> you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job.

You also have to avoid:

1) Telling your old co-workers

2) Mentioning or updating anything on social media. Even if you're not "friends" with old co-workers on e.g. Facebook, that information could still be leaked.

3) Giving any sort of talk where your employment might be leaked

4) Being at an industry event where your employment might be leaked

5) Being named on the company site, and thus your name showing up on a simple google search.

If your old employer is vindictive (which could be one reason you left), there are lots and lots of ways for them to find out where their former employee went to.

Being subtle will probably only keep your employment status hidden with the sorts of employers who aren't really making broad non-compete clauses to begin with (i.e. employers who don't care).

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#14

Here is the thing about non-competes. If you are smart about it, they can be basically impossible to enforce. If you've signed a non-compete and jump ship, you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. What are they going to do? Sue you for working at a company they don't know about? There is nothing they can do if you are subtle.

Don't ever show up to the same meetups? Don't ever post anything on eg your blog?

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#15

Here is the thing about non-competes. If you are smart about it, they can be basically impossible to enforce. If you've signed a non-compete and jump ship, you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. What are they going to do? Sue you for working at a company they don't know about? There is nothing they can do if you are subtle.

The strongest enforcement might actually come from the new employer. The new employer will ask the job candidate what documents he's signed or restrictions he's under. If the candidate admits he's subject to a non-compete, he won't get hired.

Your discretion and/or fearlessness of lawsuits won't matter. The new employer isn't willing to risk it.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#16

Here is the thing about non-competes. If you are smart about it, they can be basically impossible to enforce. If you've signed a non-compete and jump ship, you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. What are they going to do? Sue you for working at a company they don't know about? There is nothing they can do if you are subtle.

> you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. You also have to avoid: 1) Telling your old co-workers 2) Mentioning or updating anything on social media. Even if you're not "friends" with old co-workers on e.g. Facebook, that information could still be leaked. 3) Giving any sort of talk where your employment might be leaked 4) Being at an industry event where your employment might be leaked 5) Be…

Whenever anyone at all asks you where you work, you just be evasive.

It doesn't matter about any of those, if just as a policy, whenever anyone at all asks where you work, you don't tell them.

Or you just talk in broad strokes/industry without specifically mentioning the name, and if your old employer "finds out" that you have another job, they still can't do anything because they don't know the specific employer.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#17
> The best argument against noncompetes is about freedom > [...] there should be a presumption in favor of preserving people's freedom to join a new company or start one of their own.

Alas, as nice as it is to cloth an issue we care about in the language of moral superiority, banning noncompete agreements does in fact impact the freedom of contract. (In the same way, but to a lesser extent, than the ban on being able to sell yourself into slavery.)

Pragmatically this is the right thing to do. But there's no Freedom argument for it.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#18
The headline kind of has the valence of government activity backwards, though I agree with its policy proposal.

Other states don't restrict job-hopping, they just stand by and don't interfere as the free market ends up having the effect of restricting job-hopping. Employees end up signing restrictive employment contracts, and states don't prohibit them from doing so. California has made a conscious decision that the economy overall works better if some kinds of private-sector contracts are prohibited, so it's restricted what can go into an employment contract to a greater degree than other states have (every state has some restrictions, e.g. in the modern era you can't sell yourself into indentured servitude, but some states are more restrictive than others).

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#19

I've worked in SV my entire career and had never even envisioned other states allowed no-compete contracts in this day and age. Everybody I know and have worked with has had multiple jobs and wouldn't have it any other way. Yet one more way CA is far in front of every other state in basic worker rights.

The company I used to work for bullied most of the employees into signing a 5 year non-competes. And that was after they'd already been in business for 5 years. My department collectively said no, but it was a huge showdown, and they immediately started trying to figure out how to make the company less reliant on us. Every other person in the company except for us signed it.

The lawyer we consulted said it was the most draconian thing he'd ever seen and that we should all quit on the spot.

Re: Job hopping helped Silicon Valley thrive. Why do other states restrict it?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can simply NOT tell your old employer that you got a new job. You also have to avoid: 1) Telling your old co-workers 2) Mentioning or updating anything on social media. Even if you're not "friends" with old co-workers on e.g. Facebook, that information could still be leaked. 3) Giving any sort of talk where your employment might be leaked 4) Being at an industry event where your employment might be leaked 5) Be…

Whenever anyone at all asks you where you work, you just be evasive. It doesn't matter about any of those, if just as a policy, whenever anyone at all asks where you work, you don't tell them. Or you just talk in broad strokes/industry without specifically mentioning the name, and if your old employer "finds out" that you have another job, they still can't do anything because they don't know the specific employer.

> Whenever anyone at all asks you where you work, you just be evasive.

That's a pretty mentally taxing adjustment for most people to make.

It's also incredibly awkward when engaging in small talk with new people. Being evasive about answering where you work will lead to many presumptions (e.g. that you work for a 3 letter agency), few of which are very conducive to continuing a conversation.

Similarly I could just lie about where I work, but I think you can probably see how that's similarly taxing to do continuously.

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