Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sample workflow for LP digitization

manual.audacityteam.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 54 posts

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#11

Post by intopieces »

lucideer wrote: post #6
minikites wrote: post #2

To those who would ask "why rip vinyl instead of getting the CD?", there are lots and lots of records that never made it to CD.

There are also other relatively compelling reasons around quality. And I'm not referring to the idea that vinyl is an inherently better quality format than CD, but rather that many[0] actual pressings have been mastered in higher quality in practice. [0] http://dr.loudness-war.info/

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound of 128kbps MP3 over any other format or bit rate. The technology of encoding created an aesthetic.

And then of course you have Brian Eno:

"Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.”

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#12

Post by PepeGomez »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #9

While I have no need of ripping vinyl, just wanted to say that Audacity is one of the best examples of indispensable FOSS (when it comes to working with sound) that I have ever come across in my life. I remember I was using it well over 7 years ago, and was in awe of how much power it gave me for free, and how capable of a tool it was. Couldn't donate then, but definitely can now. While I know my time/PRs might be mo…

Has the conversion to 16bit been fixed? Dithering still wasn't working properly the last time I checked.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#13

Post by boondaburrah »

chiph wrote: post #3

I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if Audacity inverts the RIAA equalization curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Back when I used audacity, I recall there being an RIAA preset in the EQ plugin designed for reversing the EQ on records. I never wound up using it though because LPs still require significant preamp before your average sound card can get a good recording, and any phono preamp I had of course had the RIAA circuitry in it already.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#14

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

intopieces wrote: post #11
lucideer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also other relatively compelling reasons around quality. And I'm not referring to the idea that vinyl is an inherently better quality format than CD, but rather that many[0] actual pressings have been mastered in higher quality in practice. [0] http://dr.loudness-war.info/

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player.

Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing.

I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly terrible, its characteristic flaws set standard expectations for a medium. Hence retro anything - guitars, synthesizers, cars, recording equipment, tapes, vinyl, paperback books, computers...

How likely is it that the early designers were so awesome they hit a technological bullseye with these things - apparently almost every single time anyone developed a new technology?

I can't quite believe that's how it works.

Personally I have no love at all for the sound of vinyl, even on stratospherically expensive hardware.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#15

Post by doublerebel »

keithpeter wrote: post #7
chiph wrote: post #3

I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if Audacity inverts the RIAA equalization curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

You are right, there is no mention of the turntable/stylus/preamplifier configuration at all. I would guess that the Audacity people assume that people would be using a turntable plugged into a preamplifier with RIAA equilisation built in. http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/mixphono.htm History before the 1950s is complex. Audacity has provision for defining a frequency response curve and applying that curve to a proje…

Really surprised they left out those details. Needles have a huge impact on the frequency curve, a lot of standard club needles are bass heavy and/or sacrifice fidelity for tracking.

And on the digital side the ADC makes a noticeable difference. Plus is it isolated from the other circuitry, particularly power supplies?

Ripping vinyl takes enough work, it's worth knowing the few details that make the effort worthwhile.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#17

Post by JonnieCache »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14
intopieces wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player. Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing. I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly…

I've paid money for software which emulates a 12 bit ADAC, with a knob to adjust the jitter etc. I have several such items in fact:

https://www.plogue.com/products/chipcrusher

https://tal-software.com/products/tal-sampler

That chipcrusher thing in particular does some crazy stuff.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#18

Post by ams6110 »

don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#19

Post by schlowmo »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #9

While I have no need of ripping vinyl, just wanted to say that Audacity is one of the best examples of indispensable FOSS (when it comes to working with sound) that I have ever come across in my life. I remember I was using it well over 7 years ago, and was in awe of how much power it gave me for free, and how capable of a tool it was. Couldn't donate then, but definitely can now. While I know my time/PRs might be mo…

Word! I just like to add that it's especially indispensable for many community radios across the world. Maybe there are more powerful tools out there (FOSS or not), but I never saw an audio tool with such capabilities which people got used to so quickly like they do with Audacity. The absolutely perfect fit for those community radios where almost everything has to be self-taught.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#20

Post by lucideer »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14
intopieces wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player. Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing. I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly…

I think you're confusing hitting an objective "technological bullseye" with creating something that a specific niche audience will someday see aesthetic value in; the former of course doesn't happen with every new technology, but the latter most certainly does (albeit with different size niches for different tech: guitar distortion and 8-bit music are a lot more popular than 12-bit CD players)

Eno is spot on in this quote

Post reply on HN