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The Problem with Electric Vehicles

jacquesmattheij.com

11–20 of 205 posts

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#11
Ugh... here we go again...

> Problem 1: Transportation will load the grid and generating capacity in rather nasty ways

Electric cars are not a _complete_ solution on their own. They are _part_ of the solution, along side more renewable power sources like solar and wind. I drive an electric car and I charge it almost exclusively with solar panels at a local free charging station provided by the Tennessee Valley Authority. (I live in Chattanooga, TN.)

Also, as for putting load on the electric grid, electric cars actually help with that. Many can be configured to feed power back into the grid, and as a result, they can balance out the grid load throughout the day with their batteries.

> Problem 2: Rapid charging is actually not so rapid, highway re-charging stations will have to be much larger than current gas stations

Shift your thinking! Electric cars won't be charged at gas stations like gas cars of the past. Most electric drivers charge at home in their own garages or driveways. I have neither, but I still manage to charge my car in street parking with an extension cord, an exterior wall outlet, and a few of those little safety mat things so strangers don't trip over my cord.

Charging stations will still be important for cross-country trips, but the average driver doesn't travel that far often enough for it to clog up charging stations across the country.

> Problem 3: Gas stations are not generally in the neighbourhood of electricity generation stations.

See above.

> Problem 4: Re-charging will not work nearly as well when vehicle utilization goes up due to sharing

See above.

> Problem 5: We don’t actually have all this infrastructure yet

Well, duh. That's why we need to build it. That's not an issue with electric cars themselves. That's a problem with our infrastructure that we need to fix.

> Problem 6: Range

This is something we need to work on, but it's not as big of a problem as people realize. More than 90% of US drivers drive far less than 100 miles per day. The few times I do need to travel farther than that, it's actually kind of relaxing to stop at a mall or restaurant with a charger, plug in, and have a 30 minute lunch while I charge.

> Problem 7: Trailers

Really? This is problem for most drivers? This is a niche problem for the few people that actually need to haul trailers. So those people can just use regular cars.

> Problem 8: Service

I drive a Nissan Leaf, and I am very active in the Leaf driver community. I have never heard of a Leaf having major maintenance problems. Chevy Volt's are known for having some issues, but in my opinion, that's your fault for buying something from GM.

> Problem 9: Tax Breaks

How is this a problem? Tax breaks will eventually go away? So what? The whole idea is to make these cars cheaper now until manufacturing gets cheaper and the prices start to go down on their own. This is really grasping at straws.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#12
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true. However, I think it would be better to put the strain on the grid than continue to do so with companies that squeeze oil out of rocks. The grid can utilize natural gas, coal, solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, wave power etc.. Electric cars are the future and will force us to invest heavily in renewable energy.

Electric cars are actually more or less a natural sink for wind energy and solar because they add storage capacity to the grid, something it currently does not have.

Tesla is offering free electricity to Tesla owners in a Scandinavian country under this idea (excess energy is soaked up by the electric vehicles).

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5000 of solar panels in the office parking lot and you get almost 0 draw from the grid for the commute. I guess that doesn't compare favorably to $600 (~200*$3) per year for fuel, but it isn't real far out either.

Gas is $2 right?

Temporarily. You successfully tell me where oil prices are going to be in a year, and you'll be the richest person in the world.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-char...

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#14
post #2

I think this guy over estimates how much burden electric cars will put on the grid. For a round trip of 20 miles to work and an efficiency of 200 Watt-hours per mile, you get 8kWh which can be charged slowly at 1kW over 8 hours. Think of that in comparison to air conditioning or electric dryers.

$5000 of solar panels in the office parking lot and you get almost 0 draw from the grid for the commute. I guess that doesn't compare favorably to $600 (~200*$3) per year for fuel, but it isn't real far out either.

Solar installations will double every two years (globally), so let's hope that will be enough to keep up with EV growth.

I still think the bigger bottleneck will be the installation of chargers, though, even though it shouldn't be because they aren't that expensive. But Tesla is just one small car maker installing its own, and the other manufacturers don't seem all that interested in building them for the same reason they've been rather slow in pushing EVs on the market, too. I think governments should have a bigger role in building EV infrastructure.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#15
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true. However, I think it would be better to put the strain on the grid than continue to do so with companies that squeeze oil out of rocks. The grid can utilize natural gas, coal, solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, wave power etc.. Electric cars are the future and will force us to invest heavily in renewable energy.

Electric cars are actually more or less a natural sink for wind energy and solar because they add storage capacity to the grid, something it currently does not have.

I have never thought about the fact that electric cars are really just portable batteries. You just blew my mind.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#16
post #7

This was why I thought the Chevy Volt had the right idea; having a gas-tank there as a backup, but depend on electricity 95% of the time. But, in my opinion, the best thing to do is to move to a big city and use the trains, or campaign for a good train system in your city, which obviously can't work for everyone.

Chevy Volt goes a step further and has the gas powered engine hooked up to the wheels. I prefer the approach taken by the BMW i3 where the (optional) gas powered range-extender is purely used to generate electricity, but there's room for both in the transition period and PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles) seems like it might be an important market segment.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#17

Hmm. All problems that could have been set at the door of internal combustion when it was new. They'll be solved as EVs make up a larger percentage of what's on the road. Are EVs the endgame? I suspect not. Apart from anything else I think it's going to prove far, far harder to replace trucks than buses and cars with EVs. Would we be better investing in public transport that's convenient and reliable enough people wa…

ICE cars will go first. Most personal cars are only driven a small mileage per day and don't need to carry much weight. Needing to go more than 350 miles in a day, or needing to tow a trailer are statistical outliers to most users. Anyone who occasionally needs to go really far or carry more weight will find another solution.

As you said, I doubt ICE cars will go away completely. There's too much hobby/enthusiasm behind them for that to happen.

Trucks, buses, and planes will take much, much longer to phase out because of their extreme needs; e.g. light, compact power with a huge range.

Any other problems outside the vehicles themselves will be solved very quickly as they gain more market share.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#18
One stop-gap hybrid solution for a number of these issues would be a gas station that has a small power generation station powered by diesel fuel.

This would cancel out the ecological benefits of running an EV, even if the power station had more efficiency than a combustion engine.

Re: The Problem with Electric Vehicles

#20
This is not the type of in depth though that I expect from this author, whom I usually find to be brilliant. These are first-level concerns of somebody who just realized electric cars exist and is looking for the "problems", however in practice most of these are mitigated by tech curves, and the true problems are going to be far different.
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