Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 376 posts

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#11

Post by phire »

orik wrote: post #3
moioci wrote: post #2

Interesting parallel with Lavabit pointed out at the end of the article. Would the DOJ be willing to risk shutting down the biggest and most profitable corporation on earth over this?

I believe when the government twisted Yahoo's hand and they put up a fight, Yahoo was given a fine that increased exponentially every day they didn't comply. Yahoo would have owed the US gov. a sum equivalent to the GDP by the end of a month.

I'm not sure this approach will work now that the Government has pushed the fight public.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#12

Post by marricks »

I wonder if Apple would finance their legal fees if they resisted, or would that be considered some sort of encouragement?

It might very well help public appeal if there was a person resisting the government compared to a large corporation.

Then again, if they get to the point of ordering Apple to break their security seems like they already lost the case at that point.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#13

Post by kabdib »

smitherfield wrote: post #10
kabdib wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple HR to security engineer: "You're fired! The color of your hair is all wrong!" (Yes, you can do this in California) Security engineer: "Meep?" HR: "That's right. Oh, and here, since you were such a great employee (up until we noticed your hair, anyway), have this extremely generous dollar amount severance package. Maybe if your hair is a different color someday we'll hire you back." : Apple to FBI: "We have no o…

At-will employment does not extend to firing people in order to not comply with a court order.

HR to security engineer: "You're quitting? That's a shame. Um . . . Tim Cook has a beach house he wouldn't mind you using for a while. Can you walk his dog?"

My point is, the individuals won't suffer.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#14

Post by TillE »

marricks wrote: post #12

I wonder if Apple would finance their legal fees if they resisted, or would that be considered some sort of encouragement? It might very well help public appeal if there was a person resisting the government compared to a large corporation. Then again, if they get to the point of ordering Apple to break their security seems like they already lost the case at that point.

What legal fees? It's Apple Inc which bears responsibility in this case, not individual employees. As the article suggests:

> if the engineers refused to write the code, rather than outright quit, “then I think that the court would be much more likely to find Apple in contempt,”

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#15

Post by hkmurakami »

plorkyeran wrote: post #9
kabdib wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple HR to security engineer: "You're fired! The color of your hair is all wrong!" (Yes, you can do this in California) Security engineer: "Meep?" HR: "That's right. Oh, and here, since you were such a great employee (up until we noticed your hair, anyway), have this extremely generous dollar amount severance package. Maybe if your hair is a different color someday we'll hire you back." : Apple to FBI: "We have no o…

> Is the FBI then going to make a grab for source code, signing keys, and conscript people to do the work? I think it's become clear that they'd at least try .

Interesting. A draft targeting software engineers to forcibly enlist them in the government's "war on encryption".

What kind of dystopia are we living in again?

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#16

Post by zippergz »

marricks wrote: post #12

I wonder if Apple would finance their legal fees if they resisted, or would that be considered some sort of encouragement? It might very well help public appeal if there was a person resisting the government compared to a large corporation. Then again, if they get to the point of ordering Apple to break their security seems like they already lost the case at that point.

> It might very well help public appeal if there was a person resisting the government compared to a large corporation.

I was thinking that too, but then I reflected on the anti-Apple opinions I've seen in this case (mostly from a small subset of my Facebook friends). My fear is that it would actually do the opposite - it would give a face to the "spoiled" and "liberal nutjob" Silicon Valley nerds who "want to help terrorists." I hope I'm wrong...

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#17

Post by differentView »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #4
orik wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe when the government twisted Yahoo's hand and they put up a fight, Yahoo was given a fine that increased exponentially every day they didn't comply. Yahoo would have owed the US gov. a sum equivalent to the GDP by the end of a month.

If the engineers got fired or quit their jobs what could be done then I wonder?

After those engineers quit, Apple should hire a bunch of terrible engineers with impressive resumes (bonus if they used to work for the FBI) and put them to work on this.

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#18

Post by deegles »

plorkyeran wrote: post #9
kabdib wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple HR to security engineer: "You're fired! The color of your hair is all wrong!" (Yes, you can do this in California) Security engineer: "Meep?" HR: "That's right. Oh, and here, since you were such a great employee (up until we noticed your hair, anyway), have this extremely generous dollar amount severance package. Maybe if your hair is a different color someday we'll hire you back." : Apple to FBI: "We have no o…

> Is the FBI then going to make a grab for source code, signing keys, and conscript people to do the work? I think it's become clear that they'd at least try .

Unfortunately I'm sure there are at least a few engineers with the expertise necessary who would happily agree to work with the FBI (for whatever reason.)

Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist

#19

Post by jfoutz »

moioci wrote: post #2

Interesting parallel with Lavabit pointed out at the end of the article. Would the DOJ be willing to risk shutting down the biggest and most profitable corporation on earth over this?

The DOJ couldn't shut down apple. Apple has $200,000,000,000 in cash and marketable securities. DOJ's budget is only 27 billion. That's a lot of lawyer time. It's a huge waste of money, but there it is.

Way less likely, but Apple could move HQ to another country. And take their secret source code and keys with them.

Post reply on HN