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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#11

Post by Intermernet »

matwood wrote: post #3

Most things that kill people in the USA kill more people than terrorists do. The comparison is purposely sensationalistic and cheapens the argument much like 'think of the children.'

Have you perhaps considered that the treatment of terrorism is "purely sensationalistic" as well? The argument against terrorism shouldn't be "cheapened", but it should have far less value than it currently does.

There are far more pressing issues, some of which will actually decrease the threat of terrorism. (for example: global access to education and healthcare, as well as moderate, tolerant leadership will decrease the ability for extremism to forment in the first place).

I know this view is unpopular, but it is logical.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#12

Post by pjc50 »

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland.

The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects by police is extremely rare (police are not routinely armed, except for anti-terrorist patrols at strategic points with MP5s), and of course firearm accidents and suicides are less common as well. Sadly suicide is a problem in the farming community; farmers often have shotguns for pest control purposes and deer culling.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#15

Post by tobltobs »

jeremysmyth wrote: post #9
lhnz wrote: post #2

This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers. I don't think the internal logic of the argument works anyway. Do people react to terrorism solely because of the perception of present danger? I always thought terrorism was feared because it signalled that a group of people would prefer to dominate their host with violence than to assimilate into the predominant culture…

The ultimate worry is that in 100 years our countries will be split into separate warring tribes. The ultimate worry is that there won't be a 100 years. Some demagogues and dogmas attract ruthless followers. It only takes one well-supplied psychopath (with access) to cause a huge amount of damage. It might be an idiot with a bomb in his underwear, or it might be a North Korean nuclear submarine captain.

Or one shit-crazy US president.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#16

Post by jfaucett »

Using the argument form of this article you could make any number of outrageously nonsensical claims. The form is basically X does Y more than Z, where X occurs vastly more than Z in some population.

Examples:

1. white caucasians commit more crime in the Canada than all other ethnic groups combined!

2. In Sweden the common cold is more lethal than HIV!

In my opinion article exemplifies the antithesis of a decent argument or even ligitimate journalism.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#17

Post by lhnz »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #5
lhnz wrote: post #2

This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers. I don't think the internal logic of the argument works anyway. Do people react to terrorism solely because of the perception of present danger? I always thought terrorism was feared because it signalled that a group of people would prefer to dominate their host with violence than to assimilate into the predominant culture…

> This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers. The article never made this point. All it said is that they kill more people. In which case it would seem reasonable to ask, can we save more lives, more effectively with enhanced gun control then with enhanced anti-terrorism measures (I suspect governments are more interested in the later because it really is a power g…

> The article never made this point. All it said is that they kill more people.

If that was the case they would not have mentioned terrorism. The comparison to terrorism exists because it makes the article travel better between members of the Blue Tribe who think anxieties over terrorism are overblown and better gun control would be good.

Remove the link to terrorism and the article would have had less currency within this group.

> I always thought terrorism was feared because this is an emotion which the government and the media sell.

The message already resonates with conservatives as they already have high anxiety about losing their 'way of life'. It's not just a case of a message that has been sold by the government and the media. Real people's innate fears [0].

> I really don't think any such worry is realistic, these people are marginalized and completely inconsequential to their nations GDP or the progress of civilization.

Yes - in many cases. But there are a few countries in Europe that will be majority islamic over the next 100 years, and in those places people might lose their 'way of life'. Demographic changes are underway.

As you probably realise, fear isn't always rational. Many groups of people are very sensitive to fears of losing their 'way of life'. Even without the existence of a significant threat.

[0] http://www.unz.com/pfrost/are-liberals-and-conservatives-dif...

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#18

Post by geggam »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt.

http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#20

Post by saiya-jin »

cm2187 wrote: post #10

Terrorism is like a mosquito in a room. Hearing its buzz will drive people nuts but the actual harm caused is negligible. But right now people are pretty much ready to throw their basic rights and freedom away in the hope it will make the buzz go away. The worst part is that attacks like the Paris attacks are pretty much impossible to prevent unless we transform our democracy into a totalitarian state...

unless it's a mosquito with malaria or dengue :) (aka terrorist with nuclear/dirty bomb).

terrorism is, above all, politically motivated theatrical act that should manipulate audience into something (fear and thus irrational behavior, election choices etc). plus some stray dogs that are out of any reasonable control.

we humans are vastly irrational, and just because mankind landed on the moon doesn't mean emotions don't hold more power than reason in most of us. that's why so many people are afraid of flying, are superstitious, believe in horoscopes and so on. you know, general folks out there who have same voting power as you or me or anybody else

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