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AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

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Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#11

Post by mathattack »

iaw wrote: post #2

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt. Probably one of the most exciting achievements in AI in a little while.

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt.

I hope that Lee can adapt, but I doubt it. Lee will be training at a slow pace analyzing 4 or 5 games. AlphaGo will be playing hundreds of millions against itself - and it is a worthy competitor of itself already.

Although Go and AlphaGo are very different than Chess and DeepBlue, there is one interesting analogy... Once chess beat us, they pulled ahead very quickly and the gap isn't closing. The ELO rating of top chess programs [0] is pulling away from top humans [1]. There are natural differences between computational superiority and creativity, but it seems like AlphaGo has captured a lot of the latter.

[0] https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-best-computer-chess-e...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_World_Rankings

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#13

Post by hiddencost »

iaw wrote: post #2

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt. Probably one of the most exciting achievements in AI in a little while.

> It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt.

This kind of learning doesn't work like that. It doesn't learn from specific examples, or make meaningful inferences from single data points. It learns tiny gradients from millions of examples. If we had an approach that could create a meaningfully distinct strategy depending on {whether we included or excluded {every game Lee Sedol has played in his life} from training}, that would be wildly more significant than just beating him.

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#14

Post by kbody »

jmiserez wrote: post #7
awwducks wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was in the press conference for Game 4 IIRC.

Also in the pre-game commentary for game 3. It was mentioned that AlphaGo was trained on so many games that the games of Lee Sedol that were used for training were not more than a drop in the ocean. This was the answer to the question about whether AlphaGo was trained specifically against Lee Sedol.

Demis was asked about this, training AlphaGo with Lee Sedol's games and said that it would take tens of thousands of games to make any difference.

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#15

Post by RBerenguel »

Wintamute wrote: post #9

I love the spirit with which the Baduk Association, and human Go players in general are taking this. A spirit of competition and respect. To think that, in defeat, an organisation of a human game thousands of years old would award their highest honorary title to an AI? Bodes well for human/machine relations. Perhaps we will see them more as precocious and gifted children, than competetors, in who's strong arms we sha…

In Korea they also started using the equivalent of Sensei to refer to the AI after game 3 (or 2, not sure). A friend of mine lived there for a while, playing a lot of go with professionals (taught English, learnt Korean and worked remotely) so he knows the vibe there for that.

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#16

Post by albntomat0 »

mathattack wrote: post #11
iaw wrote: post #2

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt. Probably one of the most exciting achievements in AI in a little while.

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt. I hope that Lee can adapt, but I doubt it. Lee will be training at a slow pace analyzing 4 or 5 games. AlphaGo will be playing hundreds of millions against itself - and it is a worthy competitor of itself already. Although Go…

Is there anything currently in Go like in chess where computer assisted humans play best (centaurs)? I did a brief internet search, but nothing specific came up.

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#17

Post by [deleted] »

RBerenguel wrote: post #15
Wintamute wrote: post #9

I love the spirit with which the Baduk Association, and human Go players in general are taking this. A spirit of competition and respect. To think that, in defeat, an organisation of a human game thousands of years old would award their highest honorary title to an AI? Bodes well for human/machine relations. Perhaps we will see them more as precocious and gifted children, than competetors, in who's strong arms we sha…

In Korea they also started using the equivalent of Sensei to refer to the AI after game 3 (or 2, not sure). A friend of mine lived there for a while, playing a lot of go with professionals (taught English, learnt Korean and worked remotely) so he knows the vibe there for that.

[deleted]

Re: AlphaGo given honorary 9 dan rank by Korean Baduk Association

#19

Post by mathattack »

albntomat0 wrote: post #16
mathattack wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that with time Lee may be able to even out the advantage. It would be surprising if AlphaGo hadn't be trained on historic matches with Lee giving him an early edge until Lee can adapt. I hope that Lee can adapt, but I doubt it. Lee will be training at a slow pace analyzing 4 or 5 games. AlphaGo will be playing hundreds of millions against itself - and it is a worthy competitor of itself already. Although Go…

Is there anything currently in Go like in chess where computer assisted humans play best (centaurs)? I did a brief internet search, but nothing specific came up.

I suspect that this will start happening. Until now the computers weren't good enough to help! (Even now AlphaGo takes a tremendous amount of computing power)
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