I have two questions about HFT: - Is HFT a healthy or unhealthy part of the economy? Meaning does it help flatten out the highs/lows, or does it emphasise them? - Aside from a micro-tax on trading (e.g. 1c/trade) is there any other mitigations/solutions to HFT?
I don't see why we couldn't put a time delay in. Something like this: when you commit to a trade, the actual trade delayed for some N minutes, where N is a randomly-chosen value from some distribution. Wouldn't this eliminate the incentive to do HFT?
Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
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Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#12So essentially the exchanges offer multiple data feeds. These feeds are differentiated by a couple of points. 1) How much market data they give out. Typically this is broken into 3 levels: - Level 1, Just the top of book quote, this is the best bid and offer and their corresponding number of shares at this price level. - Level 2 Depth of market at each price level, same as above but you can see all liquidity offered.…
From the article:
Specifically, we found that stock quotes from the NYSE were delayed by more than 30 seconds to the public quotation feed (chart 1), relative to Open Book, which is NYSE's expensive direct feed product used mostly by High Frequency Traders (HFT).
That indicates it was quite a bit more than 300-700 nano seconds at it's worst, by a few orders of magnitude. The chart showing the delay over time in their testing period shows a delay of 200ms routinely. That's way more than a few hundred nanoseconds.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see why we couldn't put a time delay in. Something like this: when you commit to a trade, the actual trade delayed for some N minutes, where N is a randomly-chosen value from some distribution. Wouldn't this eliminate the incentive to do HFT?
Another disincentive might be the trade tax that Bernie Sanders has proposed since it would basically affect HFT way more than anyone else.
It's worth noting that after the Canadian regulatory authorities added a per-message fee, bid-ask spreads rose, liquidity dropped, and it was retail traders who suffered the most. http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/04/a-s...
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#14I have two questions about HFT: - Is HFT a healthy or unhealthy part of the economy? Meaning does it help flatten out the highs/lows, or does it emphasise them? - Aside from a micro-tax on trading (e.g. 1c/trade) is there any other mitigations/solutions to HFT?
But volatility isn't the only axis on which to measure the health of the markets. The advent of electronic automated market making is also tied to drastic reduction of spreads, which are a tax that anyone trading has to pay to the market for the privilege of buying at the market.
A lot of people talk about spreads as if they were a meaningless abstraction, in sort of the same way as they talk about "liquidity". But in the 1990s, crooked human market makers (read: all market makers) rigged spreads to skim extra money off trades; look up the "odd eighths scandal". That doesn't happen anymore, and, more importantly, spreads (and their attendant cost to trading) are razor thin.
That's not the only thing automated electronic trading does to improve the markets. For instance, in the 80s and 90s, simply placing an order with a broker was extremely expensive. Today, there are no-fee brokers. Why? Because automated trading systems purchase the rights to internalize orders from retail brokers; if you're an automated market maker, retail order flow is practically risk free revenue, and all you have to do to earn it is hook your trading system up to brokers.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#15So essentially the NYSE is a provably fixed game, with large HFT houses paying for the right to trade on non-public information, and it hides behind the idea that it was just a few hundred milliseconds. All the while they are selling non-public information as a product that is deliberately used to micro-manipulate the market? I mean, deep down I always knew this, but to have it all spelled out is shocking because it…
If you were a retail investor or a mutual fund, what NYSE was doing probably didn't impact you at all.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#16A NYSE Speed Bump You Weren't Aware Of https://www.iextrading.com/about/press/op-ed/
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#17Pretty sure this is the initial analysis from 2010 - http://www.nanex.net/FlashCrash/FlashCrashAnalysis_LOD.html "If the average or base quote rate is around 10,000/second, then it only takes an additional 10,000 quotes/second to reach the magic 20,000 quotes/seconds where a corresponding delay is seen in NYSE quote from CQS." This seems like a bug related to system load, so a $5M seems pretty harsh unless they knowi…
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#18So essentially the exchanges offer multiple data feeds. These feeds are differentiated by a couple of points. 1) How much market data they give out. Typically this is broken into 3 levels: - Level 1, Just the top of book quote, this is the best bid and offer and their corresponding number of shares at this price level. - Level 2 Depth of market at each price level, same as above but you can see all liquidity offered.…
> It's this later feed that is getting the exchanges into trouble as these feeds notify the user of trades before the SIP can be updated which lets firms have a 300-700 nano second peek at the market before everyone else does. From the article: Specifically, we found that stock quotes from the NYSE were delayed by more than 30 seconds to the public quotation feed (chart 1), relative to Open Book, which is NYSE's expe…
The NYSE has always had a reputation of being awfully inept from a technology standpoint, though they have made strides in the past few years.
That particular time was made even worse by the direct feed holding up much better that their SIP feed, though the direct feed was also slower than normal.
An accurate title might be NYSE fined for having a software bug that slowed down one feed occurred during the busiest time in the markets history.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#19I have two questions about HFT: - Is HFT a healthy or unhealthy part of the economy? Meaning does it help flatten out the highs/lows, or does it emphasise them? - Aside from a micro-tax on trading (e.g. 1c/trade) is there any other mitigations/solutions to HFT?
IIRC, HN's yummyfajitas goes into a lot of details in his blog posts on HFT[1]. My own understanding is that it provides liquidity and reduces bid/ask spreads, resulting in a more accurate stock valuation. I'm not sure the negatives, but I'm not a trader nor do I follow such things all that closely. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3852341
"Most HFTs run a market making strategy. What this means is they play both sides of the table - they take no position on whether a stock will go up or down. Instead, they try to offer securities both to buy and sell. If you want to buy, they will sell to you at $20.10. If you want to sell, they'll buy from you at $20. As long as their buys and sells match don't get too out of whack, the HFT will collect $0.10 = $20.10 - 20.00."
That does provide more immediate trades for both the buyer and seller, which the pro-HFT camp calls liquidity. Unfortunately it's usually not needed - both the buyer and seller were already in the market and willing to trade, and now they both just had an additional $0.10/share sucked out of their trade by some HFT.
Re: Nanex Gets $700k Whistleblower Award from SEC
#20I have two questions about HFT: - Is HFT a healthy or unhealthy part of the economy? Meaning does it help flatten out the highs/lows, or does it emphasise them? - Aside from a micro-tax on trading (e.g. 1c/trade) is there any other mitigations/solutions to HFT?
IIRC, HN's yummyfajitas goes into a lot of details in his blog posts on HFT[1]. My own understanding is that it provides liquidity and reduces bid/ask spreads, resulting in a more accurate stock valuation. I'm not sure the negatives, but I'm not a trader nor do I follow such things all that closely. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3852341
This is a great example of how the modern economy fails to link wealth created with wealth extracted.