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EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

bbc.co.uk

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Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#11

Post by masklinn »

mino wrote: post #9
junto wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Brit living in Germany. A vote to leave the EU is likely to mean that I will need to apply for a work visa to stay here. It is more than likely going to cause me a major pain in the arse. On the other hand I'm tempted to have the anti-EU Brits win and let them see what a disaster that will be for the UK, shutting them up once and for all. Then have them come back with their tails between their legs asking to be…

Also, don't forget that: > It’s a peculiarity of this referendum that Commonwealth citizens may vote in it, whereas French, Italians and Germans who have lived here for many years, and are much more directly affected, may not. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/how-to-...

IIRC a fair few of those work in finance in the City, things are going to be… interesting.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#12

Post by [deleted] »

vertex-four wrote: post #5
venomsnake wrote: post #2

I really hope for an exit. I just want to see what will happen with UK outside of EU. Especially since they have done nothing to fulfill their pre referendum Scottish promises. The imperial preference days are over. That is a lesson the British need to learn. And a self inflicted wound will be the best way to do it. So either UK will be in EU as with all other or not at all. The current state of affairs as we are in…

That sounds like you're treating this as a game. Fact of the matter is, if we leave the EU, a whole bunch of minorities lose a whole bunch of human rights protections. When this happens, the ability to lead a life of any sort decreases and suicide rates increase. The UK being "kinda-sorta part of the EU" is not a wonderful thing, but being out of it entirely would be far worse for real people. Fight for more integrat…

[deleted]

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#14

Post by junto »

masklinn wrote: post #11
mino wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, don't forget that: > It’s a peculiarity of this referendum that Commonwealth citizens may vote in it, whereas French, Italians and Germans who have lived here for many years, and are much more directly affected, may not. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/how-to-...

IIRC a fair few of those work in finance in the City, things are going to be… interesting.

Indeed. Border control policies end up being a tit for tat affair.

The only reason EU countries have border controls on flights landing in their respective countries from the UK, is because the UK applies border controls on their citizens entering the United Kingdom. I can fly from Germany to Spain without ever showing my passport at my destination, but if I fly to and from the UK I need to show my passport on both sides.

I expect this to become 100 fold worse in the UK tries to leave the EU.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#15

Post by venomsnake »

vertex-four wrote: post #5
venomsnake wrote: post #2

I really hope for an exit. I just want to see what will happen with UK outside of EU. Especially since they have done nothing to fulfill their pre referendum Scottish promises. The imperial preference days are over. That is a lesson the British need to learn. And a self inflicted wound will be the best way to do it. So either UK will be in EU as with all other or not at all. The current state of affairs as we are in…

That sounds like you're treating this as a game. Fact of the matter is, if we leave the EU, a whole bunch of minorities lose a whole bunch of human rights protections. When this happens, the ability to lead a life of any sort decreases and suicide rates increase. The UK being "kinda-sorta part of the EU" is not a wonderful thing, but being out of it entirely would be far worse for real people. Fight for more integrat…

Cameron started treating it as a game. I just want to play in such a way to make it best for europe. I am sick of British blackmail. Pax Britanica is over. It is a small regional player. And I want it seen treated as. such. And if minority protections are so important said minorities should have done more for preventing him to come to power.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#16

Post by k-mcgrady »

I'm pretty worried about this. I don't think most of the public are well enough informed to make this decision and I can't really blame them given all the propaganda. I could see many people making their decision based on immigration alone. One place that's going to be particularly hard hit by an exit will be Northern Ireland considering it shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland. In order to keep the current abilities to travel across the border with zero restrictions (the border is essentially invisible currently) I'm sure a lot of new laws will need to be worked out. I could also see a lot of businesses simply shifting offices 50 miles across the border to keep business within the EU.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#17

Post by antillean »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #16

I'm pretty worried about this. I don't think most of the public are well enough informed to make this decision and I can't really blame them given all the propaganda. I could see many people making their decision based on immigration alone. One place that's going to be particularly hard hit by an exit will be Northern Ireland considering it shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland. In order to keep the curre…

Uh, no. Neither Ireland nor the UK is in the Schengen. The UK didn't want to be, and Ireland opted out because of the UK. From the BBC[1]:

"The UK and Republic of Ireland have opted out. The UK wants to maintain its own borders, and Dublin prefers to preserve its free movement arrangement with the UK - called the Common Travel Area - rather than join Schengen."

1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13194723

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#18

Post by MLR »

venomsnake wrote: post #15
vertex-four wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like you're treating this as a game. Fact of the matter is, if we leave the EU, a whole bunch of minorities lose a whole bunch of human rights protections. When this happens, the ability to lead a life of any sort decreases and suicide rates increase. The UK being "kinda-sorta part of the EU" is not a wonderful thing, but being out of it entirely would be far worse for real people. Fight for more integrat…

Cameron started treating it as a game. I just want to play in such a way to make it best for europe. I am sick of British blackmail. Pax Britanica is over. It is a small regional player. And I want it seen treated as. such. And if minority protections are so important said minorities should have done more for preventing him to come to power.

Categorising the UK as a small regional player shows a ridiculously limited world view.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#19

Post by k-mcgrady »

antillean wrote: post #17
k-mcgrady wrote: post #16

I'm pretty worried about this. I don't think most of the public are well enough informed to make this decision and I can't really blame them given all the propaganda. I could see many people making their decision based on immigration alone. One place that's going to be particularly hard hit by an exit will be Northern Ireland considering it shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland. In order to keep the curre…

Uh, no. Neither Ireland nor the UK is in the Schengen. The UK didn't want to be, and Ireland opted out because of the UK. From the BBC[1]: "The UK and Republic of Ireland have opted out. The UK wants to maintain its own borders, and Dublin prefers to preserve its free movement arrangement with the UK - called the Common Travel Area - rather than join Schengen." 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13194723

Shocked I wasn't aware of that! I still think it'll be pretty bad from a business perspective with Northern Ireland losing companies to the Republic and more difficult trading between the two.

Re: EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote

#20

Post by dogma1138 »

junto wrote: post #7
venomsnake wrote: post #2

I really hope for an exit. I just want to see what will happen with UK outside of EU. Especially since they have done nothing to fulfill their pre referendum Scottish promises. The imperial preference days are over. That is a lesson the British need to learn. And a self inflicted wound will be the best way to do it. So either UK will be in EU as with all other or not at all. The current state of affairs as we are in…

I'm a Brit living in Germany. A vote to leave the EU is likely to mean that I will need to apply for a work visa to stay here. It is more than likely going to cause me a major pain in the arse. On the other hand I'm tempted to have the anti-EU Brits win and let them see what a disaster that will be for the UK, shutting them up once and for all. Then have them come back with their tails between their legs asking to be…

The UK most likely will still remain within the EEA even if they'll leave the EU, as resident holders within Iceland, Norway and Switzerland can move around and work within any country within the EEA/EU even without being EU members.

Not to mention that even a vote to exit will take years and there will be provisions to maintain current status it's highly unlikely that the UK will kick out millions of residents not to mention have to take in millions of UK nationals that are living in other EEA countries (which on it's own could cost the UK economy much more in the short term, as when people are forcibly kicked out of their country are quite often not in the best financial position to make that move).

While it's true that the UK takes in a large amount of EU nationals they export almost as many there is a slight difference that the ones that leave the UK often posses high paying jobs in the first place while many individuals that come in come in often as a qualified job seeker meaning that they might receive more benefits at least initially than paying out as far as taxes go.

This situation is also quite common among immigrants from lower income EU countries like Poland and Romania which also historically exported allot of their income back home, it wasn't that uncommon for them to immigrate to the UK for 3-5 years just to make enough money to buy a house in their home country and then return there which is some what of an issue on it's own also.

There probably should be a better process to ensure that there isn't considerable wealth drain on the stronger economies due to economic immigration but more importantly that there isn't a brain and skill drain on the poorer EU members, pretty much any one I've spoken too from Bulgaria and Romania curses the EU more than your average UKIP voter mostly because it seems that joining the EU caused a massive exodus of anyone who could leave for greener fields which often are the most educated and better off people in the first place, those who can actually drive the country forward.

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