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India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

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Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#11

Post by intended »

scorpion032 wrote: post #2

Probably the most progressive regulation among anywhere in the world. Enforcement of these #NetNeutrality principles is the literal granting of the Liberties and Equalities of opportunities, granted to individuals and as such this is a landmark order that will have far reaching repercussions. Worth noting how this played out. A bunch of folks on the internet, organised themselves and campaigned to stop a $300B market…

While the David's won this round, it was against an opponent (or group of) which made several tactical errors.

We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues.

Because Next time it may not be Facebook, it may be the GoI itself, or reliance.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#12

Post by atroyn »

scorpion032 wrote: post #7
atroyn wrote: post #5

Could Facebook not simply have outmanoeuvred the problem here by providing free access to the wider web, perhaps in a rolling fashion? Does Facebook have any real 'native' competition in India?

If their motive were genuinely connectivity, as they advertised it, they can still do it. #EqualRating is allowed, so are charitable initiatives such as Free Data to everyone. But what do they really want? The next billion internet users hooked onto their platform. That's what they paid Whatsapp a whooping $19B for. I can't presume to know for sure. We'll both see what will they do of their Freebasics program now.

But won't they be just as hooked as in markets where Facebook has already penetrated? Seems like the smart play is just getting people on-line, and getting them onto Facebook the same way they always have.

Why wouldn't that work in India?

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#13

Post by atroyn »

chillydawg wrote: post #10
atroyn wrote: post #5

Could Facebook not simply have outmanoeuvred the problem here by providing free access to the wider web, perhaps in a rolling fashion? Does Facebook have any real 'native' competition in India?

Zuckerberg said it himself: without the amazing monopolistic properties of the system as proposed, providing free access to everything would not be economically viable. Of course it wouldn't be economically viable, how could it be?

On the revenue side, Facebook doesn't monetize these users (yet), and it's a virtual monopoly in almost every market it's in. On the cost side, one bit costs pretty much the same as any other to serve.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#15

Post by ethanbond »

atroyn wrote: post #12
scorpion032 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their motive were genuinely connectivity, as they advertised it, they can still do it. #EqualRating is allowed, so are charitable initiatives such as Free Data to everyone. But what do they really want? The next billion internet users hooked onto their platform. That's what they paid Whatsapp a whooping $19B for. I can't presume to know for sure. We'll both see what will they do of their Freebasics program now.

But won't they be just as hooked as in markets where Facebook has already penetrated? Seems like the smart play is just getting people on-line, and getting them onto Facebook the same way they always have. Why wouldn't that work in India?

It would. But why not cheat if you can get away with it?

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#16

Post by madaxe_again »

So - I wonder how Facebook will respond to their market penetration and lock-in effort being declared illegal, as granting access to one set of sites for free and not allowing access to others surely falls under this legislation.

I expect that they'll continue business as usual, and will drag out the battle until they have a captive and indoctrinated audience (after all, they control the content, so you can be sure folks won't be reading about this, but they will be reading about how internet.org gives you freedom and is great and wonderful) who will push the government in favour of banning non-discriminatory pricing.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#17

Post by rasz_pl »

madaxe_again wrote: post #16

So - I wonder how Facebook will respond to their market penetration and lock-in effort being declared illegal, as granting access to one set of sites for free and not allowing access to others surely falls under this legislation. I expect that they'll continue business as usual, and will drag out the battle until they have a captive and indoctrinated audience (after all, they control the content, so you can be sure f…

They will offer all of the web in free package, throttled to 100bytes/second. Because current legislation was solely about pricing.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#18

Post by eterm »

intended wrote: post #11
scorpion032 wrote: post #2

Probably the most progressive regulation among anywhere in the world. Enforcement of these #NetNeutrality principles is the literal granting of the Liberties and Equalities of opportunities, granted to individuals and as such this is a landmark order that will have far reaching repercussions. Worth noting how this played out. A bunch of folks on the internet, organised themselves and campaigned to stop a $300B market…

While the David's won this round, it was against an opponent (or group of) which made several tactical errors. We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues. Because Next time it may not be Facebook, it may be the GoI itself, or reliance.

How do we focus instead on changes required for a better internet?

The internet was originally designed (imagined?) to route around bad actors, congestion, censorship. If it no longer does that (and there's some truth to say it never has) then we've failed to build in the necessary incentives for that to happen.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#19

Post by icebraining »

madaxe_again wrote: post #16

So - I wonder how Facebook will respond to their market penetration and lock-in effort being declared illegal, as granting access to one set of sites for free and not allowing access to others surely falls under this legislation. I expect that they'll continue business as usual, and will drag out the battle until they have a captive and indoctrinated audience (after all, they control the content, so you can be sure f…

they control the content, so you can be sure folks won't be reading about this

Unless they just go to https://www.facebook.com/netneutralityin/

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#20

Post by dingo_bat »

cmadan wrote: post #4
dingo_bat wrote: post #3

>Two key aspects of the Net Neutrality consultation that remain: firstly, the proposed requirement for providers of VoIP services like Whatsapp, Viber and Skype to obtain a government licence, which would mean that telecom operators could be required to treat traffic from unlicensed VoIP providers differently from the rest, and secondly, allowing telecom operators the ability to slow down and speed up websites, givin…

Its a step in the right direction. TRAI was only deciding on differential pricing not slow/fast lanes and currently no ISPs are implementing slow/fast lanes whereas differential pricing (i.e. free plans for Facebook, Whatsapp, their own shitty apps etc) were all over.

>no ISPs are implementing slow/fast lanes

How do we know that? And even if they aren't, they will start doing it.

This was a great chance to disallow all of that crap but instead TRAI has been tempted to regulate voice apps, a task that they are simply incapable of performing effectively anyway.

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