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People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

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Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#11

Post by Eliezer »

modoc wrote: post #3
drewcrawford wrote: post #2

The question is not "Can they afford a tax hike?" The question is, "Will they continue to gross $250,000 and take home less of it, or will they find a lower-stressed job and make less?" The answer is probably the latter, for a lot of folks.

I'm right there on that line. Honestly I pay a TON of taxes already. Very high rate, lots of taxable income. Cutting back to be under 250k would probably make more sense than making 255k and paying a lot more in taxes. I don't mind taxes and social programs. I do mind paying for unending wars in the Middle East (not making a political statement, just a budgetary one). Cut some of the crazy expenses, and I'll be happi…

> Cutting back to be under 250k would probably make more sense than making 255k and paying a lot more

What kind of job do you have that makes >$250K and doesn't require you to understand how income taxes work? I'm skeptical.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#12

Post by jfager »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #6

Of course they can "afford" it. But so what? Every single billionaire can "afford" to be taxed at a 99% rate. The bigger question: is it in any way fair, just, or moral to tax society's most successful more heavily just for being more successful? EDIT: The other salient question that I forgot to mention is: "why do we need more taxes?" Our government already can't manage what they have with any sort of reasonable eff…

Why shouldn't the people who benefit the most from how society is structured be expected to pay the most for its maintenance?

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#13

Post by rbranson »

I make what I consider a middle class salary (around double the household income in my area), and I'm pretty sure I can afford a tax hike. While I would not be terribly happy about it, it's not going to hurt me. I'd say for most of the real middle class, who haven't mortgaged themselves to the hilt, a tax hike of a few percent will cut into their discretionary income, not anything truly needed. I'll have to wait another two weeks to get my 52" big screen television. Oh no.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#14

Post by javaru »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #6

Of course they can "afford" it. But so what? Every single billionaire can "afford" to be taxed at a 99% rate. The bigger question: is it in any way fair, just, or moral to tax society's most successful more heavily just for being more successful? EDIT: The other salient question that I forgot to mention is: "why do we need more taxes?" Our government already can't manage what they have with any sort of reasonable eff…

I would say that the society's most successful are often the ones benefiting the most from the law and order provided by government. If the highway, mail, law enforcement, and judicial systems, for example, didn't work as well, it would be much harder to create a successful business.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#15

Post by rbranson »

drewcrawford wrote: post #2

The question is not "Can they afford a tax hike?" The question is, "Will they continue to gross $250,000 and take home less of it, or will they find a lower-stressed job and make less?" The answer is probably the latter, for a lot of folks.

This would make sense if income level actually truly scaled with job difficulty or discomfort. Even if they doubled my taxes, I wouldn't quit my job to go work some minimum-wage drudgery. Higher salary ends up also meaning your job is actually more comfortable. The kind of bullshit people have to put up with in their $7/hr jobs is amazing to me sometimes.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#16

Post by ryandvm »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #6

Of course they can "afford" it. But so what? Every single billionaire can "afford" to be taxed at a 99% rate. The bigger question: is it in any way fair, just, or moral to tax society's most successful more heavily just for being more successful? EDIT: The other salient question that I forgot to mention is: "why do we need more taxes?" Our government already can't manage what they have with any sort of reasonable eff…

Your edit is the best part. I wouldn't necessarily mind paying higher taxes if the government were a capable solutions provider. Alas, if you've ever actually worked for the government, you know they are not.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#17

Post by gnaritas »

modoc wrote: post #3
drewcrawford wrote: post #2

The question is not "Can they afford a tax hike?" The question is, "Will they continue to gross $250,000 and take home less of it, or will they find a lower-stressed job and make less?" The answer is probably the latter, for a lot of folks.

I'm right there on that line. Honestly I pay a TON of taxes already. Very high rate, lots of taxable income. Cutting back to be under 250k would probably make more sense than making 255k and paying a lot more in taxes. I don't mind taxes and social programs. I do mind paying for unending wars in the Middle East (not making a political statement, just a budgetary one). Cut some of the crazy expenses, and I'll be happi…

Seriously man, that's not how taxes work at all. You can't take home more by making less. 255k will have more take home than 250k even if the marginal tax rate was 99%.

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#19

Post by keltex »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #6

Of course they can "afford" it. But so what? Every single billionaire can "afford" to be taxed at a 99% rate. The bigger question: is it in any way fair, just, or moral to tax society's most successful more heavily just for being more successful? EDIT: The other salient question that I forgot to mention is: "why do we need more taxes?" Our government already can't manage what they have with any sort of reasonable eff…

I think the real question is will this tax increase make a significant dent in the budget deficit?

Re: People who make $250,000 or more a year can afford a tax hike.

#20

Post by ryanwaggoner »

jfager wrote: post #12
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #6

Of course they can "afford" it. But so what? Every single billionaire can "afford" to be taxed at a 99% rate. The bigger question: is it in any way fair, just, or moral to tax society's most successful more heavily just for being more successful? EDIT: The other salient question that I forgot to mention is: "why do we need more taxes?" Our government already can't manage what they have with any sort of reasonable eff…

Why shouldn't the people who benefit the most from how society is structured be expected to pay the most for its maintenance?

Aside from the larger question of why the government has the right to take people's income by force to begin with, I can think of four practical reasons off the top of my head:

1) It is a disincentive to others who might try to reach that level

2) It's hardly clear that the success of the wealthy is due to how society is structured, and not their own effort. Undoubtably some is, but is it 90/10 or 10/90?

3) It encourages relocation of talent, business, and capital to states or countries where the tax situation is more favorable.

4) It's not clear to me that more tax revenue results in a net benefit to society. My opinion is that the rich are better at investing their money for optimum yield than the government, and the end result is more benefit for society.

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