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A house that costs $20k

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11–20 of 212 posts

Re: A house that costs $20k

#11
post #7

> How do you design a home that someone living below the poverty line can afford Why not rent a flat instead? Wouldn't that be much more economical (no property prices, lower heating costs, less maintenance work, less risk, not built on the cheap)? I don't understand the fixation on owning a house / living in a single-family house many americans seem to have.

America is big.

Things are spread out in most cities and towns. When living in the city, one gets value in exchange for giving up the privacy of owning your own home and land. And, it is not realistic for people who are poor, or even middle class, to own a home in a major metropolis, and so they often do live in an apartment or townhome (a mini-house that shares walls with one or more other townhomes...somewhere between a condominium and a real house). I would accept that kind of lifestyle if living in a densely populated city. I wouldn't if living in most mid-sized cities in the US...but, housing is still expensive. A tiny house on a plot of land fits the bill perfectly for me. I don't need more living space than an apartment provides, I just need more space than having neighbors on the other side of the wall provides. I also want a garden.

Americans who grew up in rural areas have an even more extreme view of how much space is the right amount than I do (I grew up in the suburbs, and still hate apartments).

Also, I want to own where I live, by the time I get close to retirement age (which I'm still a few decades away from, but it's part of the usual retirement plans for most Americans, and they start working on it during middle age).

Re: A house that costs $20k

#12
post #3

I love things like this, but also saddened that in the UK the land to put it on would cost at least ten times that amount. The planning system here is a disgrace.

UK housebuilding companies are sitting on (by various estimates) 400,000-600,000 plots of land which have planning permission, but they haven't built on. That's about 3 years' worth of new houses. The reason is to hold up prices, and because (with "ever-rising" prices) if they build in the future they will make more profit.

There are problems in the planning system, certainly, but at the moment we need an undeveloped land tax to stop this behaviour.

Sources: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/30/revealed-hous... http://www.local.gov.uk/media-releases/-/journal_content/56/...

Re: A house that costs $20k

#13
post #8
post #2

It's fascinating to see innovation in this space. I am also curious to see how the mortgage and realtor industry responds to this type of demand in the future.

As noted in the article, the current mortgage situation isn't good at all. I wanted to buy land a couple of years ago, to build a tiny house on. I went in willing/able to put a 30-40% down payment on the property, with plans to build my own tiny house completely self-funded over the next year or so. The banks were simply not at all equipped to address that. Despite my excellent credit (high 700s) and low debt, and th…

If you're interested in knowing why, it's because mortgages are sold as securities these days (and have been since before the Big Collapse). If your mortgage is significantly not like the other mortgages, it can't be bundled and sold into the pool of other securitized mortgages. That means your lender has to carry the note itself and the overwhelming majority of lenders--banks and brokers--don't do that.

The other problem: banks need a property that, if foreclosed upon, can be sold to recoup their investment. A friend of mine is having this exact problem. He has a house that could withstand a bomb being dropped on it but it is built to his preferences and the banks he has visited to inquire about refinancing have all said that a sale would be difficult. Too risky to use as collateral since they can't be relatively certain of recovering against loss.

What you're looking for is a "portfolio loan," where the financial institution keeps your loan on its own books. Some credit unions do this (mine does) in situations like yours. The interest will be commensurate with the credit union's guess of how easy your property will be to resell (both in the opinion of the underwriter and of the outside, independent appraiser) to pay for the risk but it can be done.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#15
I would be scared to buy a house that uses non-standard construction methods. Not because I don't trust the plans, but because even with cookie cutter houses, the construction people mess up a lot of things and you really have to pay an additional person to check the construction. Trying to get construction companies to build a house using novel techniques and do it without major errors is, I imagine, quite an undertaking.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#16
post #8
post #2

It's fascinating to see innovation in this space. I am also curious to see how the mortgage and realtor industry responds to this type of demand in the future.

As noted in the article, the current mortgage situation isn't good at all. I wanted to buy land a couple of years ago, to build a tiny house on. I went in willing/able to put a 30-40% down payment on the property, with plans to build my own tiny house completely self-funded over the next year or so. The banks were simply not at all equipped to address that. Despite my excellent credit (high 700s) and low debt, and th…

It falls down to the value of your proposal, eg:

Land: $25,000 Resale at $20,000 to $30,000

Tiny House: $25,000 Resale at -$5000* to $35,000

Normal House: $100,000 Resale at: $75,000 to $125,000

* Next owners may want it removed

A $50,000 loan doesn't make sense / is too risky.

I know the above is grossly over simplified, and there's hundreds to thousands of factors going into a risk / valuation but currently banks aren't equipped to handle tiny homes, not to mention the market for them isn't as big yet to justify it.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#17
post #8
post #2

It's fascinating to see innovation in this space. I am also curious to see how the mortgage and realtor industry responds to this type of demand in the future.

As noted in the article, the current mortgage situation isn't good at all. I wanted to buy land a couple of years ago, to build a tiny house on. I went in willing/able to put a 30-40% down payment on the property, with plans to build my own tiny house completely self-funded over the next year or so. The banks were simply not at all equipped to address that. Despite my excellent credit (high 700s) and low debt, and th…

That loan situation sounds incredibly frustrating. The banks are like, "come on man, it's cool, borrow more money from us," because that's in their interest ... but if you don't wanna play by their rules, then you get shot down.

Sorry to hear it -- both "sorry" in the sense that I wish it hadn't happened to you, and sorry because I myself have had pipe dreams of buying my own land and building on it, so here is some evidence against that being possible.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#18
post #6
post #4

Excluding all costs apart from material. Yeah, it doesn't cost 20k.

> How do you design a home that someone living below the poverty line can afford, but that anyone would want—while also providing a living wage for the local construction team that builds it? Material is $14k.

The articles says "Originally, the project aimed for a house that would cost $20,000 in total, including construction, though they now believe that more money may be needed to provide a living wage for builders."

So more than 20k.

Plus land. How much does the land cost?

Re: A house that costs $20k

#19
post #15

I would be scared to buy a house that uses non-standard construction methods. Not because I don't trust the plans, but because even with cookie cutter houses, the construction people mess up a lot of things and you really have to pay an additional person to check the construction. Trying to get construction companies to build a house using novel techniques and do it without major errors is, I imagine, quite an undert…

UK: we had big problems with 'system build' council housing in the UK in 1960s and early 1970s. Google 'Bison' and 'Ronan Point' for background.

I'd hope that we have (all) learned a bit about pre-manufactured sections and assembly since then and perhaps pre-manufactured units with quality control/JIT manufacturing techniques would be better than the current bricks on site based construction.

UK: the problem would be the land to build on anywhere near population centres and utilities by the way...

Re: A house that costs $20k

#20
post #7

> How do you design a home that someone living below the poverty line can afford Why not rent a flat instead? Wouldn't that be much more economical (no property prices, lower heating costs, less maintenance work, less risk, not built on the cheap)? I don't understand the fixation on owning a house / living in a single-family house many americans seem to have.

Rent does not build wealth. Rent is the act of transferring wealth from the poor to the rich. Rent is, essentially, theft from society itself, it leaves everyone poorer when most people rent.

Rent in America today is identical to the serfs of old.

The post-WW2 thing the Government did with getting everyone mortgages so they would be home owners that caused the eventual economic collapse 10 years ago? They had the right idea, but the wrong execution.

Instead of making everyone homeowners, make everyone fiscally responsible so that getting a mortgage wouldn't be hard for them in the first place.

I don't entirely blame them though: building Freddy and Fannie was magnitudes easier than fixing the broken parts of American society and (lack of) education.

This is one of the large reasons why I'm supporting Bernie, he actually has spoken in depth about how to fix the underlying bullshit that keeps so many Americans renters instead of being homeowners and building their personal wealth.

It has been proven in at least one study that financial stress causes a measurable drop in IQ: literally, being poor makes you stupid. We need less stupid people, to put it frankly.

Edit: Don't downvote. Reply with your counter-viewpoint. HN isn't Reddit.

Edit 2: Bernie said it better than me: http://imgur.com/gallery/DaHIv

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