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Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

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Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#11

Post by nazgulnarsil »

cwan wrote: post #6
bballant wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree that amending the constitution takes things too far, I also think that corporations already have too much influence on American lives and I disagree with the recent SCOTUS decision because it validates that influence to a degree. I think the real solution (to corporate and government overreach) is to consume less, buy local, invest local, use community banks, etc (and also, to think about who we vote…

From a historical context, I do find it a bit odd this fear of "corporations". It's really difficult to argue that they function in any way as a cohesive group. Sure it can be argued that they're all profit seeking (some more than others) but the search of profits is done in such radically different ways. If anything, the power of corporations has been lessening simply because of the nature of the net/web (just think…

in a market the search for profit is the search for more efficiently serving aggregate preferences of consumers. allowing corporations to assume disproportionate control of the political process is almost assuredly a net improvement.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#12

Post by Kilimanjaro »

"our government is corrupt"

Those in power want it to be corrupt to perpetuate themselves in power. Those aspiring for power become corrupted once they get there.

Small government, local voting and decision making. Direct democracy. No politician wants a reform for they will be left out.

We must burn down the government to save it.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#13

Post by nazgulnarsil »

kiba wrote: post #7
bballant wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree that amending the constitution takes things too far, I also think that corporations already have too much influence on American lives and I disagree with the recent SCOTUS decision because it validates that influence to a degree. I think the real solution (to corporate and government overreach) is to consume less, buy local, invest local, use community banks, etc (and also, to think about who we vote…

What with the whole "buy local" and "invest local" idea? Have you ever the of the word "trade" and "merchants"? Do you "buy"? There's a reason for "specialization" and "division of labor". It's why we're so wealthy, because of our economy's vast ability to make stuff and transport stuff. Utilize people's comparative advantage, we can produce more unit of goods than we would otherwise if we do not specialize and trade…

can never be overstated. TRADE IS CIVILIZATION! voluntary exchange for mutual benefit is the most powerful incentive against violent conflict. preventing powers from externalizing the costs of conflict onto others is the most important issue facing the world. it is holding back all other progress.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#14

Post by nazgulnarsil »

Kilimanjaro wrote: post #12

"our government is corrupt" Those in power want it to be corrupt to perpetuate themselves in power. Those aspiring for power become corrupted once they get there. Small government, local voting and decision making. Direct democracy. No politician wants a reform for they will be left out. We must burn down the government to save it.

more, smaller governments (competition forces better customer service) is an easy win for liberty. unfortunately smaller governments can't resist black swans as effectively (napolean running through the italian city states like butter).

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#15

Post by jokull »

As a non American: Is it not obvious that a politician accepting money to mould policy is bad for the bottom line?

Also slightly related - why is it acceptable to persuade a court to release suspects by simply paying them bail money in England and America?

Money walks all over morals.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#17

Post by jamesbritt »

jokull wrote: post #15

As a non American: Is it not obvious that a politician accepting money to mould policy is bad for the bottom line? Also slightly related - why is it acceptable to persuade a court to release suspects by simply paying them bail money in England and America? Money walks all over morals.

"Also slightly related - why is it acceptable to persuade a court to release suspects by simply paying them bail money in England and America?"

You get it back if you make all of your court appearances. it's way to help ensure that people charged wth a crime don't flee.

"Money walks all over morals."

How so?

Would it be better to keep people in jail simply because they've been accused of a crime?

If everyone was trusted to show up for court after being charged I think we'd have a whole other set of issues.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#18

Post by gaius »

cwan wrote: post #6
bballant wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree that amending the constitution takes things too far, I also think that corporations already have too much influence on American lives and I disagree with the recent SCOTUS decision because it validates that influence to a degree. I think the real solution (to corporate and government overreach) is to consume less, buy local, invest local, use community banks, etc (and also, to think about who we vote…

From a historical context, I do find it a bit odd this fear of "corporations". It's really difficult to argue that they function in any way as a cohesive group. Sure it can be argued that they're all profit seeking (some more than others) but the search of profits is done in such radically different ways. If anything, the power of corporations has been lessening simply because of the nature of the net/web (just think…

Replace "corporations" with "witches" and you'll see it for the Mediaeval superstitious ranting that it is.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#19

Post by dabent »

jokull wrote: post #15

As a non American: Is it not obvious that a politician accepting money to mould policy is bad for the bottom line? Also slightly related - why is it acceptable to persuade a court to release suspects by simply paying them bail money in England and America? Money walks all over morals.

I'm not a lawyer, but this is my understanding (I'm in the USA):

On bail - suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The idea is that someone accused of a crime can free themselves until trial, with the bond money used as an incentive to get them to return to face trial. Well, there's also the incentive that they will be hunted down by bounty hunters if they flee.

This has two benefits. The accused can mount their best defense, fee from the confines of jail. The other, which is probably most important, is that the government can't just jail someone for a long period by accusing them of a crime.

The use of money for bond is imperfect, but it seems to work. Bail is set with the amount varying with the severity of the crime. Severe crimes (such as murder) can be refused bond, forcing the accused to stay locked up.

For those who lack the means to post the full bond, there are people who sell bail bonds -- in other words, they will post the full bail, if you pay them a percentage and a fee. The understanding is that you show up for court, or they will use civil suits and bounty hunters to get the money from you and put you in front of a judge forcibly should you flee.

The "accepting money to mould policy" part? Wow. Our lobbying system in general in the US is a mess. I honestly have no defense for it. If I was in charge, I'd place much stricter limits on lobbyists.

Re: Lawrence Lessig: How to Get Our Democracy Back

#20

Post by kingkongreveng_ »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #9
kingkongreveng_ wrote: post #3

I want the restricted republic back. No interest in democracy. "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." --Mencken

the founding fathers are often criticized for their preference for having only landowners (which meant wealthy white males in general) vote. painting the picture in such a simple way (it's undemocratic! sexist! racist!) is dangerous. all democracies restrict suffrage to varying degrees (we do not allow children, felons, or the mentally unstable to vote). the purpose of this is to concentrate power int he hands of the…

It's related to the arguments by Hans Herman Hoppe that monarchies throughout history have on net demonstrated better long term decision making and planning than democracies. A hereditary monarch has some level of incentive to optimize tax revenue over generations. An eight year politician has only incentive to ensure reelection.
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