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Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

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Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#11

Post by mtrn »

rwmj wrote: post #8
objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

I find the way software is packaged in Go to be a terrible regression, but I'm more interested in why you think pip and venv's don't solve the problem for Python already? Edit: I see from your reply that we're talking at cross purposes. I thought you meant source distribution, but you mean binary distribution to end users or deployment to production systems, and in that case I agree with you.

Why is Go packaging terrible? Because we are going back to static binaries?

I write and ship Go and Python code every day and I found that distribution is a great overall benefit - one, that some developers for some reason seem to ignore.

It's not just convenient for me, but for various other parts of a project as well: less moving parts is welcomed by ops, fast iterations help to meet the requirements. Overall a very positive impact for a reasonable price tag: larger binaries and recompilation overhead, when a critical library that is used needs a fix.

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#12

Post by _yy »

objectified wrote: post #10
rwmj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the way software is packaged in Go to be a terrible regression, but I'm more interested in why you think pip and venv's don't solve the problem for Python already? Edit: I see from your reply that we're talking at cross purposes. I thought you meant source distribution, but you mean binary distribution to end users or deployment to production systems, and in that case I agree with you.

Being able to ship a self contained binary of your application is a very powerful concept, on which many seem to agree. The way I see it, pip and virtualenv are not practical for deployment or distribution. You shouldn't have to download and install things during a production deployment. I even created a tool ( https://github.com/objectified/vdist ) to mitigate this problem, but it will always be a hack when doing it…

Remember that critical Go security update?

Usual procedure - update the shared library, restart affected services. Go - recompile everything.

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#13

Post by Pharaoh2 »

mtrn wrote: post #11
rwmj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the way software is packaged in Go to be a terrible regression, but I'm more interested in why you think pip and venv's don't solve the problem for Python already? Edit: I see from your reply that we're talking at cross purposes. I thought you meant source distribution, but you mean binary distribution to end users or deployment to production systems, and in that case I agree with you.

Why is Go packaging terrible? Because we are going back to static binaries? I write and ship Go and Python code every day and I found that distribution is a great overall benefit - one, that some developers for some reason seem to ignore. It's not just convenient for me, but for various other parts of a project as well: less moving parts is welcomed by ops, fast iterations help to meet the requirements. Overall a ver…

It great when you hold all the go code and can deploy fixed version anytime. It sucks ass when there is a critical vulnerability in libc and all your go based binaries was compiled against it and you are waiting for the vendors to issue patches instead of just being able to upgrade libc.so.

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#15

Post by adrianN »

rwmj wrote: post #8
objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

I find the way software is packaged in Go to be a terrible regression, but I'm more interested in why you think pip and venv's don't solve the problem for Python already? Edit: I see from your reply that we're talking at cross purposes. I thought you meant source distribution, but you mean binary distribution to end users or deployment to production systems, and in that case I agree with you.

I found it quite hard to produce a Windows Installer that my users can just run that installs my program plus all the libraries it depends on. If I recall correctly, it was hard to bundle OpenCV and other stuff that relied on native code.

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#16

Post by pjmlp »

objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

> Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular.

By those that never used an AOT compiler to native code.

Other than that, Given that Lisp, Dylan always had AOT compilers, it would be nice if Python eventually had something similar.

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#17

Post by fulafel »

objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

Last time I needed single-executable distribution with Python (admittedly a while ago), there were easy to use "freeze" tools for this that worked really well. A cursory web search suggests that cx_Freeze is the current popular tool for it. Has the situation tehnically deteriorated or are people unaware of these Python tools now?

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#18

Post by Loic »

fulafel wrote: post #17
objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

Last time I needed single-executable distribution with Python (admittedly a while ago), there were easy to use "freeze" tools for this that worked really well. A cursory web search suggests that cx_Freeze is the current popular tool for it. Has the situation tehnically deteriorated or are people unaware of these Python tools now?

PyInstaller[0] is working really well. I am using it to deliver Python application in big companies setup as a single ".exe" without the need to install anything on the target machine.

The only drawback is that you have the decompression time when starting the software, but in my case, the customers have not noticed it yet.

Edit: The advantages of Nuitka are that as you compile your code to C++, you make it faster and also protect it against easy reverse engineering. This could be interesting to compile the critical parts of your application with Nuitka and pack the rest with PyInstaller.

[0]: http://www.pyinstaller.org/

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#19

Post by wibr »

This looks very similar to Cython, which can also compile .py files without modification and is more mature at the moment. It seems that Nuitka wants to do a few things differently, though. The biggest difference is probably that Nuitka wants to use type inference + hints instead of explicit declarations, which make Cython code incompatible with CPython but give you more control and C interoperability.

Edit: Thanks, no more interference!

Re: Nuitka Progress in 2015 – Python Compiler

#20

Post by sametmax »

objectified wrote: post #7

IMHO, this is a very important project as it makes up for one of the biggest shortcomings in the Python ecosystem - distribution of software. Distribution is clearly one of the reasons that Go is so popular. It would be great if we could take advantage of Python as a language and Python as an ecosystem while still being able to deploy as if it was a walk in the park.

+1. I'll donate to the guy and if you are using Python professionally, you should consider doing so, and inviting your compagny to follow.
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