Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Being a deaf developer

cruft.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: Being a deaf developer

#11

Post by caffeineninja »

sdrothrock wrote: post #5
Jemaclus wrote: post #2

As another deaf developer (severe-to-profound loss), this is absolutely on point. A lot of the traditional techniques that work for most companies don't work for me, especially when it comes to pair programming. I strongly dislike group stand-ups, because I never know who's going to talk next. One of the other things I've found myself struggling with is when to tell someone that I have a hearing loss. I feel like if…

> One of the other things I've found myself struggling with is when to tell someone that I have a hearing loss. I feel like if I do it in the first interview, I'll set off unconscious biases I completely understand this and have felt the same way, but the trade-off I ended up making in my mind to make me feel more comfortable with being up-front is that if they're not willing to be accommodating for the interview, wo…

Ding ding ding

Re: Being a deaf developer

#13

Post by sdrothrock »

Sven7 wrote: post #12

For the deaf developers around, how many of you use ASL? How often have you been able to use it in at work?

I don't use (or even know) ASL. My (hearing) mother tried to get me to learn it when I was younger and enrolled me in classes, but the age disparity and cliqueish community turned me off even when I was 6 or 7. I especially remember getting a list of restaurants that had accommodations for us, so we were encouraged to use them, and how that really rubbed me the wrong way (because my favorite wasn't on the list).

Rarely, ASL interpreters have been offered to me (high school, as an option to explore in college), but since I don't know ASL, it was never really an option for me. It definitely wouldn't be a realistic option here in Japan. (I imagine any Japanese-ASL interpreter could command a pretty penny for the very rare times that they're needed!)

Re: Being a deaf developer

#14

Post by hollsk »

pcote wrote: post #10

>> The stereotype of a programmer as a solitary eccentric who’s allergic to human company is unfair and inaccurate. As a group, we’re a very social bunch. I'm a disabled programmer too. In my case, it's autism so statements like this make me cringe. It puts up an exaggerated effigy of some weirdo with asperger syndrome so neurotypicals can say "We're not like that guy!" Programmers need a quiet place to work. But tha…

Hey, article writer here. I feel shitty that I made you feel shitty. I'm sorry to have been insensitive.

I'd also like to say that I am absolutely against raising of noise levels because that sucks for coding and also life in general. I'm deaf, but not completely deaf, and I also have a condition called "recruitment" which is a form of noise sensitivity that you can read about here: http://www.hyperacusis.net/hyperacusis/hyperacusis+or+recrui... Recruitment makes noisy office environments an absolute nightmare for me and I've been known to take my damn laptop and go the hell home and work there if the noise levels ramp up.

Sociability in programmers takes many forms, and I don't think it's a coincidence that sites like HN and stackoverflow are so popular with devs - that's a way of very sociable without actually having to speak to people in meatspace. Programming has probably more of its fair share of introverts and non-neurotypical peeps, partly because of the requirement for peace and quiet while you're working out hard problems. I think it's also partly because as a group we're more accepting of others' needs and differences. Mack Collier did a great post on this, and it's this sort of concept I was thinking about when I wrote that part of the article: http://mackcollier.com/why-introverts-love-social-media/

So once again, sorry for making you feel shitty. In future I'll be on guard against coming out with things like that. Keep being awesome!

Re: Being a deaf developer

#15

Post by hollsk »

sdrothrock wrote: post #4
caffeineninja wrote: post #3

Chiming in here - I've got congenital profound loss in both ears, but I have a cochlear implant. I've grown in my career over the last 15 years from junior dev up to my current engineering management role, and what I've observed was: 1) The biggest hurdle in most cases is communication, especially in meetings. That being said, I still do fine in them, because I rely on lip reading as well as vocal cues/context, but I…

Interesting! I'm in a very similar situation (congenital profound hearing loss, implanted in left ear at 16), but in a country (Japan[1]) where the primary language is not my native language (English). > The biggest hurdle in most cases is communication, especially in meetings. That being said, I still do fine in them, because I rely on lip reading as well as vocal cues/context, but I also rely on my coworkers to be…

>Telephone communication is also a big problem. No matter how often I tell people about my disability or how quickly I respond to e-mails/chats, they will still insist on calling me for "urgent" things. My theory is that because I'm largely functional in person, they still subconsciously expect me to be able to use a phone normally.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. People forget! We also get so good at lip-reading and making the right faces at the right moments that people think it's not as bad as it is. FWIW I did start just ignoring the phone, and then when the peevish emails come in saying "I'm trying to phone you!" I remind them that I'm deaf, and they're gonna have to outline the problem in writing.

I said this in the article, and it bears saying again: adjustments can always be made. If somebody needs to get hold of me quickly, they can ping me on Slack. They can send me a message on Google Hangouts. They can Skype me! There's lots of options. They go for the phone because that's what they're used to, but it's totally possible to train people out of this. It's not just for your comfort, it's to make it possible for you to do your job effectively.

I've had to be kinda pushy about this sometimes, but I don't regret sticking to my guns. I used to just roll over and it made everything more difficult and unpleasant as a result.

Edit: just saw your post below about big businesses refusing to allow IM. That would make things... awkward. Here in the UK employers are required by law to make "reasonable adjustments" for disabled employees ("reasonable" meaning reasonable to the employee and to the employer), and a big company would struggle to get away with that over here. I think it's called "reasonable accommodations" in the US? My first port of call would definitely be to go and see HR and wave the relevant legislation under their noses, if it exists in Japan.

Re: Being a deaf developer

#16

Post by Sven7 »

sdrothrock wrote: post #13
Sven7 wrote: post #12

For the deaf developers around, how many of you use ASL? How often have you been able to use it in at work?

I don't use (or even know) ASL. My (hearing) mother tried to get me to learn it when I was younger and enrolled me in classes, but the age disparity and cliqueish community turned me off even when I was 6 or 7. I especially remember getting a list of restaurants that had accommodations for us, so we were encouraged to use them, and how that really rubbed me the wrong way (because my favorite wasn't on the list). Rare…

How did you end up in Japan, if I may ask?

I would assume daily life could be a little more complicated because of the foreign language. But thinking about it a bit maybe that helps when deaf. The local population I guess automatically make allowances assuming you don't know the language. I have deaf family members, and I constantly see them getting frustrated by people who assume the deaf person understands every thing they are saying, if that makes any sense.

Re: Being a deaf developer

#17

Post by hollsk »

sdrothrock wrote: post #5
Jemaclus wrote: post #2

As another deaf developer (severe-to-profound loss), this is absolutely on point. A lot of the traditional techniques that work for most companies don't work for me, especially when it comes to pair programming. I strongly dislike group stand-ups, because I never know who's going to talk next. One of the other things I've found myself struggling with is when to tell someone that I have a hearing loss. I feel like if…

> One of the other things I've found myself struggling with is when to tell someone that I have a hearing loss. I feel like if I do it in the first interview, I'll set off unconscious biases I completely understand this and have felt the same way, but the trade-off I ended up making in my mind to make me feel more comfortable with being up-front is that if they're not willing to be accommodating for the interview, wo…

Totally agree with this. It's usually the second or third thing that I say in an interview after "hello", so I can get them to arrange where everyone sits in a favourable way. If they're dicks about it then you're not going to want to work with them. It is scary, though - nobody wants to feel like somebody hates them because of a disability that can't be helped, so I get why it's a preoccupation, and most of us will have had the same worry.

Regarding standups, I agree that they're a PITA. Talk to your scrum master about it if you have one - it's their job to facilitate communication. My past scrum masters have used the Wooden Spoon method (you only get to talk if you're holding the spoon) or they've stood beside me and taken brief notes for me throughout. We also experimented with doing our standups over Slack, which was FANTASTIC.

Re: Being a deaf developer

#18

Post by sdrothrock »

Sven7 wrote: post #16
sdrothrock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use (or even know) ASL. My (hearing) mother tried to get me to learn it when I was younger and enrolled me in classes, but the age disparity and cliqueish community turned me off even when I was 6 or 7. I especially remember getting a list of restaurants that had accommodations for us, so we were encouraged to use them, and how that really rubbed me the wrong way (because my favorite wasn't on the list). Rare…

How did you end up in Japan, if I may ask? I would assume daily life could be a little more complicated because of the foreign language. But thinking about it a bit maybe that helps when deaf. The local population I guess automatically make allowances assuming you don't know the language. I have deaf family members, and I constantly see them getting frustrated by people who assume the deaf person understands every th…

> How did you end up in Japan, if I may ask?

Majored in Japanese in college, but I couldn't speak it worth a damn. I figured that if I really wanted to be able to use Japanese in a reasonable way, I should just move here, so I got a job assisting with English education in public schools as an ALT.

> The local population I guess automatically make allowances assuming you don't know the language.

I look more or less Japanese, so they actually assume I do know the language -- it's a bit of a shock when they find that not only do I not know the language, I'm also handicapped. (Deaf people in Japan don't have very much exposure; the few that I've met have tended to keep very strongly to their own Deaf communities.)

It's actually worse in some ways; in America, if I don't hear something, I can say that and the other person understands that. Here, if I don't hear something, it's a 50/50 chance whether the other person believes me or simply thinks my Japanese isn't up to snuff (which I can tell because they resort to much, much simpler language to describe the word they thought I didn't "hear").

Re: Being a deaf developer

#19

Post by Sven7 »

sdrothrock wrote: post #18
Sven7 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you end up in Japan, if I may ask? I would assume daily life could be a little more complicated because of the foreign language. But thinking about it a bit maybe that helps when deaf. The local population I guess automatically make allowances assuming you don't know the language. I have deaf family members, and I constantly see them getting frustrated by people who assume the deaf person understands every th…

> How did you end up in Japan, if I may ask? Majored in Japanese in college, but I couldn't speak it worth a damn. I figured that if I really wanted to be able to use Japanese in a reasonable way, I should just move here, so I got a job assisting with English education in public schools as an ALT. > The local population I guess automatically make allowances assuming you don't know the language. I look more or less Ja…

I see. Sorry to hear that. I can imagine the day to day complications, but I hope other stuff in Japan more than makes up for it. Like the food :)

Re: Being a deaf developer

#20

Post by pcote »

hollsk wrote: post #14
pcote wrote: post #10

>> The stereotype of a programmer as a solitary eccentric who’s allergic to human company is unfair and inaccurate. As a group, we’re a very social bunch. I'm a disabled programmer too. In my case, it's autism so statements like this make me cringe. It puts up an exaggerated effigy of some weirdo with asperger syndrome so neurotypicals can say "We're not like that guy!" Programmers need a quiet place to work. But tha…

Hey, article writer here. I feel shitty that I made you feel shitty. I'm sorry to have been insensitive. I'd also like to say that I am absolutely against raising of noise levels because that sucks for coding and also life in general. I'm deaf, but not completely deaf, and I also have a condition called "recruitment" which is a form of noise sensitivity that you can read about here: http://www.hyperacusis.net/hyperac…

Nobody is shitty here. Just human. Stupid things sometimes can slip into anybody's blog post, mine included. It doesn't take away the value of what you were communicating here about accessibility. I loved your post. The blind uncle who introduced me to programming would have loved it too.
Post reply on HN