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Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

nature.com

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Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#11

Post by the8472 »

sandstrom wrote: post #5

The biggest issue with fuel-cells is it will prolong the rein of hydrocarbon [natural gas], from which ~95% of hydrogen is extracted. Which everyone now knows is both dangerous and unsustainable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

The same could be said about electric cars which are powered to a large degree by electricity from fossil fuels.

The key aspect is that electricity decouples production from consumption.

The same can be done for hydrogen, i.e. one group of people can work on optimizing the hydrogen-electricity conversion while another group of people focuses on optimizing the renewable-hydrogen conversion.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#12

Post by toomuchtodo »

the8472 wrote: post #10
BuckRogers wrote: post #8

While this is interesting, it doesn't change my opinion that the future is electric, not hydrogen fuel cell. Not only for the way hydrogen is extracted but the complexity of the technology. These set of blogs[0] are by a non-expert, but explain well why it's actually more complex than the ICE and inferior to electric. Highly recommended reading for laymen like myself who want a view at the technology from a common se…

Fuel cells aren't just about cars.

What are they about then? Stationary applications? Which can be served with station battery packs charged with renewables?

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

the8472 wrote: post #11
sandstrom wrote: post #5

The biggest issue with fuel-cells is it will prolong the rein of hydrocarbon [natural gas], from which ~95% of hydrogen is extracted. Which everyone now knows is both dangerous and unsustainable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

The same could be said about electric cars which are powered to a large degree by electricity from fossil fuels. The key aspect is that electricity decouples production from consumption. The same can be done for hydrogen, i.e. one group of people can work on optimizing the hydrogen-electricity conversion while another group of people focuses on optimizing the renewable-hydrogen conversion.

Disagree. There's no point in wasting time refining the process of burning natural gas into the process of cracking it into hydrogen, when you can simply cut out natural gas entirely and use solar, wind, hydro, and utility scale battery storage.

Fuel cells are a dead end, except possibly in space travel.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#14

Post by the8472 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
the8472 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said about electric cars which are powered to a large degree by electricity from fossil fuels. The key aspect is that electricity decouples production from consumption. The same can be done for hydrogen, i.e. one group of people can work on optimizing the hydrogen-electricity conversion while another group of people focuses on optimizing the renewable-hydrogen conversion.

Disagree. There's no point in wasting time refining the process of burning natural gas into the process of cracking it into hydrogen, when you can simply cut out natural gas entirely and use solar, wind, hydro, and utility scale battery storage. Fuel cells are a dead end, except possibly in space travel.

Re-read my comment, I did not mention optimizing the process of cracking natural gas.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#15

Post by the8472 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
the8472 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel cells aren't just about cars.

What are they about then? Stationary applications? Which can be served with station battery packs charged with renewables?

Battery storage capacity is limited by the battery device itself and is subject to various kinds of decay over time.

Fuel cells on the other hand are the only high-tech component in the system while the hydrogen can be stored in bulk.

Certainly, hydrogen storage does have its own difficulties, but they don't require nanomaterials or precious metals to solve.

The only batteries that provide similar properties are redox flow batteries, which happen to be quite similar to fuel cells.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#16

Post by mikeash »

BuckRogers wrote: post #8

While this is interesting, it doesn't change my opinion that the future is electric, not hydrogen fuel cell. Not only for the way hydrogen is extracted but the complexity of the technology. These set of blogs[0] are by a non-expert, but explain well why it's actually more complex than the ICE and inferior to electric. Highly recommended reading for laymen like myself who want a view at the technology from a common se…

I agree that batteries look to be way superior, and I don't see any point in hydrogen. I especially don't understand why companies like Toyota are pushing it.

However, it's good to have alternatives. Maybe some big breakthrough will suddenly turn hydrogen into the better alternative. (This is not that breakthrough, to be sure.) So even if electric is better, I'm glad to see research like this.

I disagree that electric will mean cars are mostly a software game. Exterior look, interior accommodations, and driving dynamics still count for a lot.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#17

Post by toomuchtodo »

the8472 wrote: post #14
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. There's no point in wasting time refining the process of burning natural gas into the process of cracking it into hydrogen, when you can simply cut out natural gas entirely and use solar, wind, hydro, and utility scale battery storage. Fuel cells are a dead end, except possibly in space travel.

Re-read my comment, I did not mention optimizing the process of cracking natural gas.

I did. You didn't mention a fuel source. There is no fuel source on Earth that can be converted to hydrogen other than natural gas (unless you're speaking of water, which is terribly less efficient than using a battery directly).

What fuel source are you suggesting for fuel cells?

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#18

Post by mrfusion »

BuckRogers wrote: post #8

While this is interesting, it doesn't change my opinion that the future is electric, not hydrogen fuel cell. Not only for the way hydrogen is extracted but the complexity of the technology. These set of blogs[0] are by a non-expert, but explain well why it's actually more complex than the ICE and inferior to electric. Highly recommended reading for laymen like myself who want a view at the technology from a common se…

But why can't fuel cells be used as simply another type of battery? Can you simply run them in reverse to generate h2? So you'd just give them a source of water and plug them into the wall? What am I missing?

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#19

Post by DrScump »

sandstrom wrote: post #5

The biggest issue with fuel-cells is it will prolong the rein of hydrocarbon [natural gas], from which ~95% of hydrogen is extracted. Which everyone now knows is both dangerous and unsustainable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

Only if fueled by natural gas.

If we were creating an energy infrastructure from scratch today, nuclear plants could be used in off-peak periods to split hydrogen to fuel both fuel cells and peaker plants for peak daytime use.

Re: Low-Cost Nickel Based Catalyst for Hydrogen Fuel Cells

#20

Post by cellularmitosis »

sandstrom wrote: post #5

The biggest issue with fuel-cells is it will prolong the rein of hydrocarbon [natural gas], from which ~95% of hydrogen is extracted. Which everyone now knows is both dangerous and unsustainable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

That isnt a reality which will actually play out. If your cheapest source of hydrogen comes from natural gas, you wouldn't be using a fuel cell to begin with, you'd just burn the natural gas directly.
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