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The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

stevenwei.com

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Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#11

Post by ippisl »

dutchflyboy wrote: post #7
ippisl wrote: post #4

So instead of adobe being the monopolistic developer of tools for the successful flash platform , adobe should compete with everybody else on developing tools to html5? This doesn't seem like a great business move, at least not before they tried everything they can to keep flash important.

But isn't ActionScript completely open? And the flash framework is open too. You don't need Flash CS4 to use flash. You can also program it with a third party IDE and then use the free compiler. This would be quite comparable.

what parts of flash are not open? When flash opened those parts you mentioned? do their knowledge and control of the closed parts of flash enables them to build better tools? how big a lead did they have for their tools when they opened those parts of flash ? Are they still today the leader in flash tools so maybe it's not worthwhile for a competitor to enter?

I really don't know flash in depth , but my guess is that they today have a big advantage in flash tools and moving to html5 would seriously reduce their advantage.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#12

Post by Zak »

It’s funny to me how a few years ago we were all slamming Apple for not allowing native iPhone apps and forcing us to build web apps, and now we’re slamming them for forcing us to build native apps instead* of web apps! Oh how quickly we forget…*

I think those of us who are slamming Apple over the iPhone development model are doing so because Apple is forcing us to do things. I'd be happy if they kept everything exactly the same, but allowed users to install any application from third-party websites.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#13

Post by est »

jawngee wrote: post #5

Eh. The best way for Adobe to save it is to open source the plugin though I suspect the resulting fragmentation would be a hindrance as well. A certification process of some kind might be helpful in that regard though. I'm sure there are patent and licensing issues getting in the way of such a move.

> The best way for Adobe to save it is to open source the plugin

Practically, open source their OS X / Linux plugin is good enough.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#14

Post by est »

bad_user wrote: post #3
oliverkofoed wrote: post #2

HTML5 is not a valid alternative to Flash. Sure, there is some overlap between them, but there are way more differences. It's (like so much else) like comparing an apple to an orange.

The implementations may differ, but the main use-cases are the same. So it's like comparing an apple to an orange when you want to choose a healthy supplement to your diet ;)

> but the main use-cases are the same

I beg to differ. Flash is by far the best stream-able vector animation engine.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#15

Post by reggieband »

jawngee wrote: post #5

Eh. The best way for Adobe to save it is to open source the plugin though I suspect the resulting fragmentation would be a hindrance as well. A certification process of some kind might be helpful in that regard though. I'm sure there are patent and licensing issues getting in the way of such a move.

There is the open screen project: http://www.openscreenproject.org/

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#16

Post by poppysan »

stevenwei wrote: post #8
krakensden wrote: post #6

The reason that the Flash authoring tools work in a sane manner is because there is a single, consistent runtime that they target. There is a vast graveyard of tools that tried to wrap html and javascript so you could make reasonable GUI authoring tools. To my knowledge they were all plagued by consistency and performance problems, or placed severe limits on what you could author. This is less of a way forward than i…

Yes the existing tools are pretty awful... but they're generally made by small companies that don't know how to build tools, building on the current implementations of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Has anyone given it a real shot, targeting the newest features of HTML5? Adobe on the other hand has built industry standard tools over and over again (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). They've proven that they can export their a…

I'd argue that they are good enough at building browser runtimes that theirs has 90%+ market saturation, and is an industry standard.

Now open is another issue...

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#17

Post by allenbrunson »

dutchflyboy wrote: post #7
ippisl wrote: post #4

So instead of adobe being the monopolistic developer of tools for the successful flash platform , adobe should compete with everybody else on developing tools to html5? This doesn't seem like a great business move, at least not before they tried everything they can to keep flash important.

But isn't ActionScript completely open? And the flash framework is open too. You don't need Flash CS4 to use flash. You can also program it with a third party IDE and then use the free compiler. This would be quite comparable.

last i checked, adobe's "free" flash compiler isn't all that hot. it won't allow you to create applets that use gui controls, for example.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#18

Post by radley »

poppysan wrote: post #16
stevenwei wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the existing tools are pretty awful... but they're generally made by small companies that don't know how to build tools, building on the current implementations of HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Has anyone given it a real shot, targeting the newest features of HTML5? Adobe on the other hand has built industry standard tools over and over again (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). They've proven that they can export their a…

I'd argue that they are good enough at building browser runtimes that theirs has 90%+ market saturation, and is an industry standard. Now open is another issue...

Seriously? Did Adobe beat you guys up and take away your computer? Did they say "no no no mine?"

Where is the "not open" you guys claim? Flex SDK + Eclipse == free Flash development.

I swear HTML5 fanatics just make stuff up these days. You'll use Windows, Flickr, Google, and Hacker News - all privately owned systems. But god forbid Flash is bad because... why?

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#19

Post by radley »

allenbrunson wrote: post #17
dutchflyboy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't ActionScript completely open? And the flash framework is open too. You don't need Flash CS4 to use flash. You can also program it with a third party IDE and then use the free compiler. This would be quite comparable.

last i checked, adobe's "free" flash compiler isn't all that hot. it won't allow you to create applets that use gui controls, for example.

Ever hear of Flex? It's whole purpose is GUI components. And it's free, as in free beer.

Where exactly did you check? Really. Show us this "free" flash compiler that isn't so hot.

Re: The best way for Adobe to save Flash is by killing it

#20

Post by allenbrunson »

radley wrote: post #19
allenbrunson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

last i checked, adobe's "free" flash compiler isn't all that hot. it won't allow you to create applets that use gui controls, for example.

Ever hear of Flex? It's whole purpose is GUI components. And it's free, as in free beer. Where exactly did you check? Really. Show us this "free" flash compiler that isn't so hot.

mxmlc, the free compiler from adobe, does not allow you to use the standard gui controls that their paid compiler does. yes, you can use flex, but there is certainly some kind of reason that adobe added that limitation to mxmlc.

man, why do you people have to turn everything into a pissing match?

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