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BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

sfgate.com

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Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#11

Post by JoblessWonder »

cperciva wrote: post #8
JoblessWonder wrote: post #5

Same principal we had for cameras in our school buses. Only some of them actually had cameras in them but we were scared of all of them. If the goal is to deter low-level crime like vandalism, I would think they probably worked, at least temporarily. Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times.

Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times. Having video footage of crimes is useful even if nobody watches it until after the fact. There are some security cameras in Vancouver which were installed with the explicit promise that footage would be deleted after 30 days without anyone having seen it unless the police get a warrant in the intervening…

Agreed. I was just thinking if their justification would be to deter graffiti they would want people to be afraid of being picked up during/right after the act, but I guess it would make sense for them to be worried about someone reviewing the footage later and their picture being passed around to the transit cops.

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#13

Post by jdavis703 »

JoblessWonder wrote: post #5

Same principal we had for cameras in our school buses. Only some of them actually had cameras in them but we were scared of all of them. If the goal is to deter low-level crime like vandalism, I would think they probably worked, at least temporarily. Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times.

That's why they have that inane message on a loop that says "Security alert, cameras are no gurantee against criminal activity in the BART system."

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#15

Post by ryanlol »

analyst74 wrote: post #12
mynewtb wrote: post #2

Surveillance is not security, surveillance is surveillance. I an glad to hear that not all cameras monitor our every step.

How do you propose improving security in this case?

Does the security need improving?

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#16

Post by oxide »

analyst74 wrote: post #12
mynewtb wrote: post #2

Surveillance is not security, surveillance is surveillance. I an glad to hear that not all cameras monitor our every step.

How do you propose improving security in this case?

What about paying people to provide security services?

Eyewitnesses might not be foolproof, but they're better than a cost effective dummy camera after a murder has taken place.

I don't think the murderer in this case was deterred at all, perhaps an intimidating rent-a-cop would have allowed the murder to occur near a working security camera where the police could have gathered useful information about the crime.

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#17

Post by jheriko »

many cameras /everywhere/ are 'decoys' although often through lack of maintenance and being broken rather than intentionally.

as much as they are being a security hole, they are also a cheap deterrent. i'd rather we have them than not.

most criminals are smart enough to not want to be seen... despite the misconception that many criminals are stupid, desperate or somehow abnormal people who do not behave like 'the rest of us'.

in the cases where people are genuinely out of their minds it won't make a difference. in that case its much sadder that there is no possible deterrant imo, than that we can not then track down the perpetrator of the crime.

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#18

Post by jheriko »

DanBC wrote: post #6
JoblessWonder wrote: post #5

Same principal we had for cameras in our school buses. Only some of them actually had cameras in them but we were scared of all of them. If the goal is to deter low-level crime like vandalism, I would think they probably worked, at least temporarily. Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times.

In england you know they're really cameras because the feed displays on a screen and it flicks through all of them. (I'll take some photos tomorrow.)

really? i'm pretty sure i live there and this is the exception rather than the case. particularly on public transport i have never seen this... although i've seen it in restaurants and shops quite a few times, but certainly much less frequently than i have seen cameras, or things that look like them.

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#19

Post by iolothebard »

jheriko wrote: post #17

many cameras /everywhere/ are 'decoys' although often through lack of maintenance and being broken rather than intentionally. as much as they are being a security hole, they are also a cheap deterrent. i'd rather we have them than not. most criminals are smart enough to not want to be seen... despite the misconception that many criminals are stupid, desperate or somehow abnormal people who do not behave like 'the res…

Here's the photos. Just because a few weren't working (or real) doesn't mean they have no footage:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Photos-released-of-suspec...

Re: BART killing exposes security gap – many train cameras are decoys

#20

Post by jheriko »

cperciva wrote: post #8
JoblessWonder wrote: post #5

Same principal we had for cameras in our school buses. Only some of them actually had cameras in them but we were scared of all of them. If the goal is to deter low-level crime like vandalism, I would think they probably worked, at least temporarily. Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times.

Although part of me can't imagine thinking someone is watching 4 cameras on every car on every train at all times. Having video footage of crimes is useful even if nobody watches it until after the fact. There are some security cameras in Vancouver which were installed with the explicit promise that footage would be deleted after 30 days without anyone having seen it unless the police get a warrant in the intervening…

its kind of sad. i'd rather there was a promise that the footage was kept indefinitely, but never watched unless there was a police warrant. that sounds much more useful...
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