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License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

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Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#11
post #8

Google is betting on a system that depends really heavily on detailed mapping. I'd love to know their plan for determining when the map is out of date, because of road construction or whatever. That seems like the hardest part of the whole thing to maintain long-term.

I imagine if the car ran into something that significantly deviated from what it expected, it would drop out of automatic driving. But google maps is pretty remarkably good at keeping up to date.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#12
post #10

In light of all the IoT bugs we've been hearing about, it's really nice to hear that they are being super cautious about development here. I hope they keep the same level of caution (or increase it) as they get close to market. My biggest worry here is that as the different car companies get close to market on SDCs, there will be more pressure on each to hurry.

My biggest worry is that Tesla's half-baked almost-self-driving-but-not-really will hurt someone and cause reactionary anti-self-driving-car laws.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#13
post #2

> For some time, Google has been convinced that the semiautonomous systems that others champion (which include various features like collision prevention, self-parking, and lane control on highways) are actually more dangerous than the so-called Level Four degree of control, where the car needs no human intervention. The company is convinced that with cars that almost but don’t drive themselves, humans will be lulled…

I've seen discussion of this issue in the domain of pilots with commercial airlines. The suggestion was made that because so much of flying is now done by autopilot, pilots' ability to react quickly and appropriately in a real emergency when control is handed back to them has significantly declined. And that we may soon go to completely pilotless airliners which are taken over by ground control in case of emergency. (This would also have the side-benefit of significantly reducing the risk of hijacking).

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#14
post #13
post #2

> For some time, Google has been convinced that the semiautonomous systems that others champion (which include various features like collision prevention, self-parking, and lane control on highways) are actually more dangerous than the so-called Level Four degree of control, where the car needs no human intervention. The company is convinced that with cars that almost but don’t drive themselves, humans will be lulled…

I've seen discussion of this issue in the domain of pilots with commercial airlines. The suggestion was made that because so much of flying is now done by autopilot, pilots' ability to react quickly and appropriately in a real emergency when control is handed back to them has significantly declined. And that we may soon go to completely pilotless airliners which are taken over by ground control in case of emergency.…

How does this reduce the risk of hijacking? An attacker would just hijack ground control instead.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#15
post #10

In light of all the IoT bugs we've been hearing about, it's really nice to hear that they are being super cautious about development here. I hope they keep the same level of caution (or increase it) as they get close to market. My biggest worry here is that as the different car companies get close to market on SDCs, there will be more pressure on each to hurry.

My biggest worry is that Tesla's half-baked almost-self-driving-but-not-really will hurt someone and cause reactionary anti-self-driving-car laws.

Tesla is worrisome, but they backed off some on the automation. Everybody else who has Tesla-level autodrive (NHTSB level 2, or lane keeping plus radar cruise control) has sensors to make sure the driver has hands on the wheel, or is at least in the seat and looking forward. Tesla didn't put that in. Hence those scary Youtube videos.[1]

Cruise (YC 14) is just scary. They still have that advertising video online [2] that totally oversells what they can do. All they have is lane-keeping and smart cruise control, like the other entry level systems. It's automatic driving from the "move fast and break things" crowd; they're from web and app startups.

Google is being cautious and testing heavily. But they're spending enough money to test fast, with many cars on the test track. That's the auto industry way of doing things. It takes money, but not decades, to get it right.

The CEO of Volvo has the liability issue right - when in autodrive, the manufacturer is responsible. If you can't accept that, you shouldn't be doing this.

[1] http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-autopilot-fail-video... [2] http://www.getcruise.com/

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#16
post #8

Google is betting on a system that depends really heavily on detailed mapping. I'd love to know their plan for determining when the map is out of date, because of road construction or whatever. That seems like the hardest part of the whole thing to maintain long-term.

I have a feeling they track you with your Android, and notice when no one uses a particular road, and can check if it's under construction.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest worry is that Tesla's half-baked almost-self-driving-but-not-really will hurt someone and cause reactionary anti-self-driving-car laws.

Tesla is worrisome, but they backed off some on the automation. Everybody else who has Tesla-level autodrive (NHTSB level 2, or lane keeping plus radar cruise control) has sensors to make sure the driver has hands on the wheel, or is at least in the seat and looking forward. Tesla didn't put that in. Hence those scary Youtube videos.[1] Cruise (YC 14) is just scary. They still have that advertising video online [2] t…

It's hard to come up with examples of consumer tech/products where it's considered just part of the way things are to have an event resulting in serious injury or death even though a properly maintained product was used as directed and there wasn't a clear external factor (e.g. brakes don't work on ice). I suppose some failures due to age. Drug side effects to a degree (but see Vaccine compensation fund). However, in general, such things routinely result in lawsuits in any case.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#18
post #13
post #2

> For some time, Google has been convinced that the semiautonomous systems that others champion (which include various features like collision prevention, self-parking, and lane control on highways) are actually more dangerous than the so-called Level Four degree of control, where the car needs no human intervention. The company is convinced that with cars that almost but don’t drive themselves, humans will be lulled…

I've seen discussion of this issue in the domain of pilots with commercial airlines. The suggestion was made that because so much of flying is now done by autopilot, pilots' ability to react quickly and appropriately in a real emergency when control is handed back to them has significantly declined. And that we may soon go to completely pilotless airliners which are taken over by ground control in case of emergency.…

I doubt it. Pilots are a pretty trivial cost in airline operations and there are a lot of reasons to have a human who is definitively in charge on the aircraft.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#19
post #10

In light of all the IoT bugs we've been hearing about, it's really nice to hear that they are being super cautious about development here. I hope they keep the same level of caution (or increase it) as they get close to market. My biggest worry here is that as the different car companies get close to market on SDCs, there will be more pressure on each to hurry.

My biggest worry is that Tesla's half-baked almost-self-driving-but-not-really will hurt someone and cause reactionary anti-self-driving-car laws.

I'd almost typed that same sentence in my original comment, but then I reconsidered. It turns out it's not reactionary laws I'm worried about, but the people being hurt. Even worse than over regulation is a marketplace of car manufacturers where the experience is convenient enough that some (relatively) high level of danger is accepted by the consumers.

Re: License to not drive: Google’s autonomous car testing center

#20
post #14
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen discussion of this issue in the domain of pilots with commercial airlines. The suggestion was made that because so much of flying is now done by autopilot, pilots' ability to react quickly and appropriately in a real emergency when control is handed back to them has significantly declined. And that we may soon go to completely pilotless airliners which are taken over by ground control in case of emergency.…

How does this reduce the risk of hijacking? An attacker would just hijack ground control instead.

Ground control is much easier to secure. Instead of having to find a needle (hijacker) in a haystack (the millions of random Americans flying each day) with a 90 second search, you can do proper background checks on the small number of people who are allowed to be there.
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