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Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

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11–20 of 31 posts

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#11
post #7
post #3

Censorship by definition is "the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security", with the clear understanding that attempting to bypass it by publishing elsewhere will be likewise censored and likely punished. Routine maintaining of order & interest on a private site is NOT censorship; you are welcome to publish your…

But this is the thing, other sites have similar idea of "censorship", you cannot post your own things. So, if people are centred on specific sites, where can you post? Maybe they will not kill you physically but surely they will kill your electronic life. Also question is following if people gather on private site are those sites private or public?

Their site, their property, their business.

There are plenty of sites where you can post pretty much whatever you want. HN likely frowns on self-promotion, as it would fast turn an informative news site into a bunch of "look at me!" content few are interested in.

Publicly-accessible privately-owned sites are still private, just like stores "open to the public" - you're welcome to come in and participate as the business sees fit, but promoting yourself (unless that's the point of the site) is usually frowned on and not leaving when requested is punishable trespassing.

No, they're not "killing your electronic life". Go to networksolutions.com (or wherever), register your own domain, and publish whatever you want (a few generally-accepted legal limitations aside, like libel or obscenity or state secrets). Promote it thru advertising, Twitter, Facebook, etc insofar as you're not violating their standards for objectionable/deniable content.

Freedom of the press does not mean freedom to use someone else's press as you see fit.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, specific thing is that if you share only own things you will be suspended completly. Er, that's spam and most websites would ban you for doing that, not just HN.

Are you ok with that? Why are pepole ok with sharing other people things, but it is not ok to share your own things?

There's a difference between "hey, I found something y'all might find interesting" vs "hey, I wrote something and I'm trying to promote it".

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#13
post #4

It's nothing to do with admins - it's ordinary users flagging items as not being appropriate for HN. They might even be interesting, it's just that some things are not on-topic. For example - spam really doesn't belong, and should be flagged. When that happens, the item is killed and is marked as [dead]. Do you have any specific item in mind?

Yes, specific thing is that if you share only own things you will be suspended completly. So, my additional question to this, are we unintentionally crating a structure/trend of followers instead of leaders? By encuraging people to follow instead to create?

> Yes, specific thing is that if you share only own things you will be suspended completly.

Not true. But there are many accounts that just post everything that appears on their blog, or submit ads for their own product over and over again and don't participate otherwise that are [dead]. Because they are often "mindlessly" spamming low-quality or not fitting articles and get marked as such.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#14

It's nothing to do with admins - it's ordinary users flagging items as not being appropriate for HN. They might even be interesting, it's just that some things are not on-topic. For example - spam really doesn't belong, and should be flagged. When that happens, the item is killed and is marked as [dead]. Do you have any specific item in mind?

> It's nothing to do with admins - it's ordinary users flagging items as not being appropriate for HN. They might even be interesting, it's just that some things are not on-topic.

Not entirely correct. [dead] is banned by some filter set up by the mods, user flags only lead to [flagged]/[dupe] markings on the individual submission (and attention of the mods, which then adjust the filters for future submissions based on this input)

EDIT: This also goes the other way, I've sent dang links to things I thought were unfairly [dead] and where he agreed he fixed it/invited users to resubmit content to give it another chance. I guess now that vouch exists they look at that as well.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, specific thing is that if you share only own things you will be suspended completly. Er, that's spam and most websites would ban you for doing that, not just HN.

Are you ok with that? Why are pepole ok with sharing other people things, but it is not ok to share your own things?

It is ok to share your own stuff. I mean, look at the submission history of the guy you are responding to ;) minimaxir posts tons of his own content, but it is good content, and he also participates on the site otherwise.

Also, agreed with CarolineW. Show examples.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#16
(I'm not a mod or admin, so I'm not sure about this stuff. Perhaps I'm wrong.)

1) Hacker News has a variety of methods for marking submissions or comments as dead. Not all of these require moderator intervention. Many submissions are marked dead by spam filters. Or they're killed by user flags. Some comments are caught in spam filters, or the user has been caught in a hellban. Or sometimes users flag the comment (I think this is marked differently as "flagged" rather than "dead").

2) Users with a small amount of karma can "Vouch" for dead items. This will bring them back to live status, and might trigger the mods to look to see if the account was mistakenly killed.

3) Even if the account was correctly hellbanned users could vote to un-kill individual comments. Although abuse of the vouch feature leads to loss of the button.

4) Can you point to anything that you think was incorrectly killed? Plenty of stuff which is critical of HN or YCombinator or YCombinator companies is posted and not killed. Mods have said, many times, that they do not intervene in killing those threads.

5) YCombinator companies are held to the same community standards as everyone else. A YCombinator company that used sock-puppets to vote up their submissions would get banned.

6) Sharing your own things is fine. There's even a section of the site dedicated to sharing your stuff: Show HN. And the rules ask people to engage in constructive criticism, and avoid undue negativity. It's a problem if the only thing you submit is from your own site. But it's a problem if a user only submits from one site even if it's not their stuff. Some people take every opportunity to mention their stuff in comments. "Oh hey, just wanted to say my site EXAMPLE.COM does this, try it out, let me know what you think". Sometimes that's okay if it's directly relevant to the parent comment. And HN is seems to be reasonably tolerant of it. But you have to be honest ("This is my site" is okay, "hey, have you seen this site?" is less okay) and you have to not over do it.

But, like I say, I'm just a user so maybe I've got this all wrong.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#17
post #4

It's nothing to do with admins - it's ordinary users flagging items as not being appropriate for HN. They might even be interesting, it's just that some things are not on-topic. For example - spam really doesn't belong, and should be flagged. When that happens, the item is killed and is marked as [dead]. Do you have any specific item in mind?

Yes, specific thing is that if you share only own things you will be suspended completly. So, my additional question to this, are we unintentionally crating a structure/trend of followers instead of leaders? By encuraging people to follow instead to create?

There needs to be one person besides yourself who thinks your work is HN-worthy. If that person exists, they'll post it to HN and you have no problem. If that person does not exist, then your work isn't HN-worthy and you shouldn't post it yourself. Instead of complaining about HN's rules, find one person who will vouch for your stuff.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ok with that? Why are pepole ok with sharing other people things, but it is not ok to share your own things?

There's a difference between "hey, I found something y'all might find interesting" vs "hey, I wrote something and I'm trying to promote it".

And HN is fine with "Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

HN is not fine with

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

"Hey, I made something and I'm trying to promote it".

[repeat]

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#19
post #15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ok with that? Why are pepole ok with sharing other people things, but it is not ok to share your own things?

It is ok to share your own stuff. I mean, look at the submission history of the guy you are responding to ;) minimaxir posts tons of his own content, but it is good content, and he also participates on the site otherwise. Also, agreed with CarolineW. Show examples.

The key word the OP mentioned is only:

Here is his example account:

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=grisanik

All submissions are from one domain, and there are barely any comments.

Re: Does "dead" status on HackerNews means suppression of the freedom of speech?

#20
If you think your submissions are being killed unfairly, there is a contact link at the bottom of the page where you can discuss it with the staff. Be sure to mention your actual account to them and not the one you appear to have created just to make vague complaints.
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