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In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

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Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#11

Post by nickpsecurity »

_yosefk wrote: post #7
Cyph0n wrote: post #5

Impossible unfortunately, as long as it's operating in Israel.

How about operating in the US, which on average kills 3-4 civilians per 1 enemy combatant (Israel kills 1) and starts wars for no apparent reason (what did Iraq have to do with 9/11 - that's more than 100,000 people killed, do you have an idea how much more that is compared to people killed by the IDF in the last decades? Why support "rebels" in Libya or Syria?)

I agree with you. Original point is still true. It's a double-standard U.S. allows for political reasons.

I'll also add Israel is more selective and defensive in its conflict while doing what it can to prop up its country and people. African dictators and such are on a much lower and twisted level.

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#12

Post by nickpsecurity »

outside1234 wrote: post #9
_yosefk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about operating in the US, which on average kills 3-4 civilians per 1 enemy combatant (Israel kills 1) and starts wars for no apparent reason (what did Iraq have to do with 9/11 - that's more than 100,000 people killed, do you have an idea how much more that is compared to people killed by the IDF in the last decades? Why support "rebels" in Libya or Syria?)

The two of you have proven why this is basically meaningless.

Better response than mine haha.

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#13

Post by nickpsecurity »

jonesb6 wrote: post #8
konne88 wrote: post #6

I'd take a cheaper processor over a "conflict free" one every day.

I wonder how many of the people who "downvoted" this comment used a device with an Intel chip. In reality many of us only care because it is fashionable to do so.

Exactly. konne88 is calling out most of this forum. I agree with the comment in that, while I will buy less evil stuff if I can, I don't abstain from online activities because of indirect consequences. That means I willingly choose them. I accept that.

Anyone who acts like they're pro environment, anti-rights-abuse, and so on while using lots of technology is full of shit given its supply chain and corporate support. Better admit they're willing to let some kids and people suffer to advance their agenda. I will. I don't like it but the situation is complex and warrants it.

Suddenly, the good and bad people in such a situation ain't so black and white. Rarely is but I think many activists think it is for them. They just ignore the underlying realities except for their causes.

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#14

Post by nickpsecurity »

konne88 wrote: post #6

I'd take a cheaper processor over a "conflict free" one every day.

If you're parodying the majority, then great post. If it's just selfish benefit, then appreciate your honesty asshole. Good post either way given it represents most people. :)

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#16

Post by tim333 »

Trouble is most of the products are fungible. You buy the stuff from a reputable mine and the other buyers will just buy the same stuff from the conflict zone. Its a way to feel better but the practical way to stop the thugs with guns stealing resources in the conflict zones is to do it more directly.

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#18

Post by lazaroclapp »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #13
jonesb6 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of the people who "downvoted" this comment used a device with an Intel chip. In reality many of us only care because it is fashionable to do so.

Exactly. konne88 is calling out most of this forum. I agree with the comment in that, while I will buy less evil stuff if I can, I don't abstain from online activities because of indirect consequences. That means I willingly choose them. I accept that. Anyone who acts like they're pro environment, anti-rights-abuse, and so on while using lots of technology is full of shit given its supply chain and corporate support.…

The problem is, most people don't have perfect information about where the products they use are from. So individual calls to action are a bit meaningless. How many people in this thread even knew this was a concern for chip manufacturing? How many would be able to name any other compatible chip brand that is conflict-free?

Not researching the implications of each purchase you make in a thoroughly globalized world is not the same as saying "I'd rather have people die than pay a bit more for my processor". Maybe that's the "price signal" you send, but that doesn't imply that it is your conscious ethical decision. You may be more than willing to support laws that forbid conflict chips from being sold in your country, even if those laws cause a surge in computing equipment prices.

Maybe go one step less than that and sell conflict chips like we sell cigarettes: with a huge picture of some kid with their leg blown up in the box. If people still buy them then (despite conflict-free alternatives existing), then you can make the argument that they are implicitly (but consciously) deciding cheap chips matter more than dying people.

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#19

Post by numair »

Although it's clear that Intel is addressing the very valid concerns people have always had about coltan, there are a lot of good comments in this thread about the vagueness of "conflict free." Perhaps a more interesting and useful metric would be a "living wage supply chain," where everyone involved has been paid enough money to lead at least a lower-middle-class lifestyle. I don't have any clue how this would work, but hey -- this is an online comment, not an economics paper!

Of course you'd have companies claiming that $1/day is middle class in certain countries, etc, so maybe you'd have to set some sort of standardized chart based on CPI, but y'all get what I'm saying here. I think it would be more informative than "conflict-free", especially since it gets to the root of ensuring a lack of slave-labor-like conditions for workers. Most of the fashion industry, for example, would never manage to hold itself to such a standard. "Made in Italy" is a lot more expensive when you can't pay table scraps to your Chinese "guest workers"...

Re: In 2016, Intel's Entire Supply Chain Will Be Conflict-Free

#20

Post by Cyph0n »

_yosefk wrote: post #7
Cyph0n wrote: post #5

Impossible unfortunately, as long as it's operating in Israel.

How about operating in the US, which on average kills 3-4 civilians per 1 enemy combatant (Israel kills 1) and starts wars for no apparent reason (what did Iraq have to do with 9/11 - that's more than 100,000 people killed, do you have an idea how much more that is compared to people killed by the IDF in the last decades? Why support "rebels" in Libya or Syria?)

I agree with that as well. However I think Israel is a different case.
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