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Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#11

Post by baseh »

ZoF wrote: post #9

HA. How could school not be stressful. Same rooms. Every Day. Same kids. Same motivations. Same tapping-of-the-foot. Same stagnation. Same restlessness. Same mockery. Same shame. 'Stupid fucking faggot retard loser fatty useless cunt.' Try living with that cacophonous litany for 8 hours daily and not coming out a little fucked. Absolutely a first world problem but I would have 100% more enjoyed an apprenticeship or s…

Reminds me of : this one by George Carlin >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0MKBdD2FGA

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#12

Post by fiatmoney »

danharaj wrote: post #5
fiatmoney wrote: post #3

The word "Asian" does not appear in the article. The subtext is that the elite is concerned that traditional selection measures like grades & test scores have become totally game-able via a combination of sheer hourly input & collusion / cheating amongst certain subpopulations. This causes their kids to be outcompeted for very limited slots at elite institutions (even more limited due to massive subsidies to push peo…

> We think of this as a problem only of the urban and suburban elite, but in traveling the country to report on this issue, I have seen that this stress has a powerful effect on children across the socioeconomic spectrum. I didn't read your subtext in the article. I'm not convinced it accounts for very much. Also, Asian Americans make up 5% of the population. What do you think "Asian" has to do with the topic of this…

If it were explicit, it wouldn't be "sub" text. You really do need to know a bit of context about the state of high school & higher ed admissions before the phenomenon they talk about makes sense. The NYT is kind of notorious for running editorials that only make sense as far as why they would be running, and at this particular time, if you have these pieces of information.

Stanford is 1/4 Asian, plus another 9% "international". UC Berkeley is about 40%, plus another 10% international. And as I said, it's about competition for the elite slots at those and similar places. Look at, eg, the student body composition at very "hardcore", high stress schools like Thomas Jefferson HS, or Gunn HS (recent subject of http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Why-are-Palo-Alto-s-ki... ).

The parents of students in that kind of environment are the intended target of this editorial. It provides them with a coordination point.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#13

Post by crazy1van »

danharaj wrote: post #7
askafriend wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very snarky comment but I think the general point you're making is a good one: that too often the blame for problems like these is placed in misguided places and pushed around but we fail to zoom out and examine the very core of societal structures.

I think snark is appropriate. If you asked the children what they want, you would get accurate answers. If you asked the teachers what the children need, you would get accurate answers. Instead, we ask (and get answers even if we don't ask) the adults what the children want and the bureaucrats what the children need. The bureaucratic, overmanaged, underfunded education industry is not structured for education. It's s…

> underfunded education

I was sympathetic to your argument until this part. It varies by region, but we spend what seems like a fortune on school. DC public schools spent over $18,000 per student in 2010 [0]. That's more than my state college tuition. Where does that money go?

[0]: http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/finance_ins...

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#14

Post by trentmb »

ZoF wrote: post #9

HA. How could school not be stressful. Same rooms. Every Day. Same kids. Same motivations. Same tapping-of-the-foot. Same stagnation. Same restlessness. Same mockery. Same shame. 'Stupid fucking faggot retard loser fatty useless cunt.' Try living with that cacophonous litany for 8 hours daily and not coming out a little fucked. Absolutely a first world problem but I would have 100% more enjoyed an apprenticeship or s…

> Absolutely a first world problem

I don't understand this statement.

Doesn't this mean it's a problem every developing nation will eventually face?

Wouldn't it be nice to have already figured out a solution by then?

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#15

Post by xkcd-sucks »

Based on experiences with highschool reunions and with hard-drug dealers, I feel like children whose lives are "optimized for success" often end up pissing away their "potential," while the second-tier/nice-but-dull children end up having personally fulfilling, materially successful lives. Probably this observation reflects nothing more than a bunch of named fallacies.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#16

Post by [deleted] »

trentmb wrote: post #14
ZoF wrote: post #9

HA. How could school not be stressful. Same rooms. Every Day. Same kids. Same motivations. Same tapping-of-the-foot. Same stagnation. Same restlessness. Same mockery. Same shame. 'Stupid fucking faggot retard loser fatty useless cunt.' Try living with that cacophonous litany for 8 hours daily and not coming out a little fucked. Absolutely a first world problem but I would have 100% more enjoyed an apprenticeship or s…

> Absolutely a first world problem I don't understand this statement. Doesn't this mean it's a problem every developing nation will eventually face? Wouldn't it be nice to have already figured out a solution by then?

[deleted]

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#17

Post by douche »

trentmb wrote: post #14
ZoF wrote: post #9

HA. How could school not be stressful. Same rooms. Every Day. Same kids. Same motivations. Same tapping-of-the-foot. Same stagnation. Same restlessness. Same mockery. Same shame. 'Stupid fucking faggot retard loser fatty useless cunt.' Try living with that cacophonous litany for 8 hours daily and not coming out a little fucked. Absolutely a first world problem but I would have 100% more enjoyed an apprenticeship or s…

> Absolutely a first world problem I don't understand this statement. Doesn't this mean it's a problem every developing nation will eventually face? Wouldn't it be nice to have already figured out a solution by then?

Means it's something to gripe about when you're pretty high up on Maslov's hierarchy and not worried about war, hunger, disease, or any of the other horsemen of the apocalypse. Similar to white-girl problems

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#18

Post by yathern »

trentmb wrote: post #14
ZoF wrote: post #9

HA. How could school not be stressful. Same rooms. Every Day. Same kids. Same motivations. Same tapping-of-the-foot. Same stagnation. Same restlessness. Same mockery. Same shame. 'Stupid fucking faggot retard loser fatty useless cunt.' Try living with that cacophonous litany for 8 hours daily and not coming out a little fucked. Absolutely a first world problem but I would have 100% more enjoyed an apprenticeship or s…

> Absolutely a first world problem I don't understand this statement. Doesn't this mean it's a problem every developing nation will eventually face? Wouldn't it be nice to have already figured out a solution by then?

"First world problem" is a way of saying that the problem is very low stakes and would only appear in an area where people already have their more basic needs attended to. For example, if I want my coffee to have cinnamon in it and no sugar - but the cinnamon is mixed with sugar. That's a 'first world problem'.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#19

Post by danharaj »

crazy1van wrote: post #13
danharaj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think snark is appropriate. If you asked the children what they want, you would get accurate answers. If you asked the teachers what the children need, you would get accurate answers. Instead, we ask (and get answers even if we don't ask) the adults what the children want and the bureaucrats what the children need. The bureaucratic, overmanaged, underfunded education industry is not structured for education. It's s…

> underfunded education I was sympathetic to your argument until this part. It varies by region, but we spend what seems like a fortune on school. DC public schools spent over $18,000 per student in 2010 [0]. That's more than my state college tuition. Where does that money go? [0]: http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/finance_ins...

s/underfunded/misfunded

Money that is wasted may as well never have been used.

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