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The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

npr.org

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Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#11

Post by irishcoffee »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #2

This is a misleading take on the data. A much better analysis would look at the size of the population who was middle class or upper class. If there is an equal increase in upper class population for every loss of middle class population, that just means that our incomes as a population are increasing. All things equal, both the mean and median would increase in that circumstance. And that's what the data looks like…

> If there is an equal increase in upper class population for every loss of middle class population, that just means that our incomes as a population are increasing.

> Yes, that is a decrease in the middle class-or-better bucket

Huh? Wat? Ignoring your contradiction completely, 1.5-2 million people dropped.

2% of ~100million working people is ~2 million people. 2 million people dropped out of the middle class to the lower class. 2,000,000. Two-million individuals. Two commas. Not to mention their kids. Or their retired parent(s).

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#12

Post by dragonwriter »

Measuring "class" by income distribution measures like this kind of misses the point; more accurately this is "Most Americans no longer fit a particular definition of 'middle income'".

Class distinctions are about significant qualitative distinctions, not points on a simple quantitative distribution. A reasonable upper/middle/lower class distinction could be made where the upper class has capital assets that they can and do live off the proceeds of while increasing the value and annual proceeds of the assets, the middle class has capital assets that they could (whether or not they do -- they may still work at wage labor) live for at least some months on by depleting, and the lower classes are entirely dependent on wage labor (and one could make further distinctions within these groups).

This would roughly correspond with the traditional ideas of "class".

EDIT: Which is all not to discount the potential significance of an ongoing increase in income inequality -- which almost certainly has some real impact in terms of the kind of things that would reasonably define class.

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#13

Post by dragonwriter »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #2

This is a misleading take on the data. A much better analysis would look at the size of the population who was middle class or upper class. If there is an equal increase in upper class population for every loss of middle class population, that just means that our incomes as a population are increasing. All things equal, both the mean and median would increase in that circumstance. And that's what the data looks like…

> If there is an equal increase in upper class population for every loss of middle class population, that just means that our incomes as a population are increasing

If they were defining boundaries by inflation-adjusted income, that would be correct.

They are defining them by ratio to the median income, so more upper "class" at the expense of the middle "class" by the standards used just means increased income inequality, not increased real wealth. (It could accompany increased or decreased real wealth, but its a completely separate thing.)

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#14

Post by tormeh »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #2

This is a misleading take on the data. A much better analysis would look at the size of the population who was middle class or upper class. If there is an equal increase in upper class population for every loss of middle class population, that just means that our incomes as a population are increasing. All things equal, both the mean and median would increase in that circumstance. And that's what the data looks like…

That's discussed pretty well in the article. The headline is a bit extreme, but the article is not.

The problem is more one of polarization than average wealth.

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#15

Post by mtgx »

Yet most Americans have no problem supporting either an asshole billionaire or someone who thinks it's "their turn to be president" and is supported by Wall Street billionaires (the same people responsible for the 2008 economic crash).

Most people don't seem to know what's good for them.

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#16

Post by ryan-c »

dragonwriter wrote: post #12

Measuring "class" by income distribution measures like this kind of misses the point; more accurately this is "Most Americans no longer fit a particular definition of 'middle income'". Class distinctions are about significant qualitative distinctions, not points on a simple quantitative distribution. A reasonable upper/middle/lower class distinction could be made where the upper class has capital assets that they can…

Even adjusting for cost of living would be a good start to making this more useful.

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#17

Post by ralfruns »

mtgx wrote: post #15

Yet most Americans have no problem supporting either an asshole billionaire or someone who thinks it's "their turn to be president" and is supported by Wall Street billionaires (the same people responsible for the 2008 economic crash). Most people don't seem to know what's good for them.

People in the lower income bracket don't go to the polls in the same rate as the higher income bracket.

Upps forgot the source: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/income-gap-at...

Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class

#19

Post by rhino369 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #12

Measuring "class" by income distribution measures like this kind of misses the point; more accurately this is "Most Americans no longer fit a particular definition of 'middle income'". Class distinctions are about significant qualitative distinctions, not points on a simple quantitative distribution. A reasonable upper/middle/lower class distinction could be made where the upper class has capital assets that they can…

And one very good reason not to conflate income and class is cost of living.

A family making 130k in any major metro area is far from upper class. It's upper class in small towns. I'd venture most people making 130k+ are not in any way upper class.

And a family making 40k isn't lower class in a lot of the country.

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