I think this means that the VS toolchain now has a modern C compiler front-end. The VS C++ compiler has seen good progress as of late, but the VS C compiler was seriously lagging, only supporting bits and pieces of C99(!).
Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
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Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#12Cool. Now can we have Swift with Microsoft codegen?
why would you want to use swift? just curious.
you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#13I think this means that the VS toolchain now has a modern C compiler front-end. The VS C++ compiler has seen good progress as of late, but the VS C compiler was seriously lagging, only supporting bits and pieces of C99(!).
yes, not having proper c99 has been a pain for a very long time right up to VS 2015
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#14Cool. This might have come in handy about 6 years ago for a C++ OpenGL cross-platform project. (I haven't done a C/C++ project in a long time though ...)
why? i seem to have managed many such projects without such tools before and after 6 years ago... i'm not sure what benefit they would realistically have.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#15Well consider me surprised. I didn't see that coming. At first though, when I read through I considered "this is exactly what Stallman didn't want to happen with GCC! Companies using the open-source parts to power their own proprietary tools". And then I read at the end that they intend to submit most of the things they've done back to LLVM/Clang. Microsoft is actually starting to act like one of the good guys.
>Microsoft is actually starting to act like one of the good guys. Morality doesn't need to come into it - they have real incentives to push changes back to master even without restrictive licenses.
If you look on Github (even Apache), there are Microsoft employees making contributions to open source projects under their own accounts or as part of the organization. Steps under Satya have made engagement with open source across the company generally much better, not just in field/evangelism roles. This is in addition to works like this and open sourcing of things like the CLR, etc.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#16Cool. Now can we have Swift with Microsoft codegen?
why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD
Pattern matching and structural types!
In terms of modernity, I think Swift is between C# and F#. However, Swift is far more mainstream than F#.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Microsoft is actually starting to act like one of the good guys. Morality doesn't need to come into it - they have real incentives to push changes back to master even without restrictive licenses.
If you look on Github (even Apache), there are Microsoft employees making contributions to open source projects under their own accounts or as part of the organization. Steps under Satya have made engagement with open source across the company generally much better, not just in field/evangelism roles. This is in addition to works like this and open sourcing of things like the CLR, etc.
Yeah, but you will notice none of those are GPL projects - and my point is OSS works as a business/support/development model even outside of "monetize on support model and force a level playing field with copyleft" (eg. RedHat) - for a large number of cases it makes sense/the incentives are right even with liberal licensing.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#18Cool. Now can we have Swift with Microsoft codegen?
why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD
Visual Studio can develop for iOS now (yes, you read that right), and Swift is a more pleasant alternative to Objective C.
This is probably more of a, "I'd rather use Visual Studio with my Swift project" instead of "I'd rather use Swift with my Visual Studio project." It's a very nice IDE, and Xcode is not quite as nice.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#19Well consider me surprised. I didn't see that coming. At first though, when I read through I considered "this is exactly what Stallman didn't want to happen with GCC! Companies using the open-source parts to power their own proprietary tools". And then I read at the end that they intend to submit most of the things they've done back to LLVM/Clang. Microsoft is actually starting to act like one of the good guys.
>Microsoft is actually starting to act like one of the good guys. Morality doesn't need to come into it - they have real incentives to push changes back to master even without restrictive licenses.
A company at a disadvantage may find it in their own interest to act like good guys with respect to open source projects.
Fast-forward a few years: if people become dependent on the new tool and there's money to be made differentiating their tooling from others, their attitude may change.
The debate about licenses becomes more interesting once a contributor finds themselves in a position of power vs other contributors.
Or maybe they just get tired of having to vet their changes and designs with third parties. Getting code accepted upstream can be a lot of work.
Re: Clang with Microsoft CodeGen in VS 2015 Update 1
#20Cool. Now can we have Swift with Microsoft codegen?
why would you want to use swift? just curious. you don't need a reason... but i've not seen much good about the language, just a bunch of apple hype and hand forcing. just like obj-c which the mainstream community realised the flaws of 30 years ago when it was new... and now we have to live with as a necessary evil for the same class of 'reasons'. XD
I think that's because there weren't many Swift users who weren't already on board with the Apple hype train, for obvious reasons. I don't do iOS dev personally, so it's never seemed worth my time to learn, but it seemed like a cool language.
(By the way, I have done iOS dev in the past, and Objective-C has grown a lot under Apple's recent guidance from where it was 20 years ago. Again, if there were a free-software runtime supporting modern Objective-C -- last I checked, GNUstep was a bit out-of-date -- I might have considered it as an option for development on non-Apple platforms.)