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Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

mikehadlow.blogspot.com

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Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#11

Post by conductr »

I liken coding to playing a musical instrument.

Some people are musically inclined, they can learn easily and fast and they tend to the best. But most people require some level of training complimented by the dedication of what amounts to mostly self-practice. So in a way, you're self taught.

The vast majority of people are willing to buy an instrument, just to see if they are musically inclined, but when they find out they aren't they don't have the dedication to do it the hard way.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#12

Post by sotojuan »

jkot wrote: post #5

> There’s another problem with software development that’s the flip side of the low barriers to entry mentioned above, and that is there is no well established entry route into the profession. Try Googling for ‘how to become a doctor’, or ‘how to become a lawyer’ for example: ... and it only takes 10 years to become a doctor.

Like scotty79 says, at least you know what you're doing in those ten years. Perhaps an easier analogy would be a lawyer or engineer (ABET degree + coop)? For programming, you get the following "advice":

* Get a degree

* Don't get a degree, go to a bootcamp/teach yourself

* Do side projects

* Get an internship

* Network and go to meet ups

* Learn algorithms and data structures

* Practice brain teaser questions

* Learn these languages

* Learn these languages' frameworks

I'm exaggerating and people can get hired by not know all (or any!) of these, but you get my point. It can be a confusing and overwhelming path both for people who want a career change or are graduating from university.

For some, the path to being a doctor is "easier".

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#13

Post by gabemart »

I feel like the discussion around this post will suffer from a lack of specificity over what a 'software developer' is.

Someone who works primarily on small javascript web applications has a really different job from someone who works on a large application built on a LAMP stack, or someone who writes complex iOS applications, or someone designs self-driving car software for Google, or someone who works on embedded software for pacemakers, or someone who writes operating systems or designs programming languages.

Each of these jobs probably have a particular set of paths that lead to them. Two people who are both 'software developers' don't necessarily have similar skills, training or education.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#14

Post by mei0Iesh »

Where was the proof presented for this? That idea doesn't sit well with me at all. Maybe they meant to say that it's hard for most people to want to sit still and stare at text all day. It's hard to ignore urges to go out rather than stay inside and read tutorials on the web.

I don't think programming itself is hard. Most people program. It's just that they do it without thinking about the steps they're programming, and they do it without a computer. Parents program all the time, "If you don't finish your homework before 7 PM, then you will not get dessert!"

I think this is an article, and one with votes on here, because it's flattering the audience. Maybe say complicated mathematics is hard. But not "coding". That's what dumb people like me do who prefer to stay inside and play around with text on a computer. Of all the possible jobs I can think of, coding is near the bottom of the list in terms of difficulty. Anything involving a jackhammer is much rougher.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#15

Post by mikehadlow »

mgirdley wrote: post #8

I loathe these type articles. They're complex arguments to justify the attitude that "only we chosen few (men) with serious tech degrees are gifted enough to do important work in code." Tech is a big, prosperous industry and will be bigger if we act welcoming rather than creating complex arguments to protect our turf. Disclaimer: Am a white male with a CS degree who runs a coding bootcamp.

Actually the article very clearly says that the majority of professional developers don't have 'serious tech degrees', and that a large number of those that graduate from such degrees can't code. it makes the argument that there aren't any artificial barriers to entry, it's purely about aptitude.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#16

Post by sotojuan »

dudul wrote: post #6
sotojuan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really hurts new CS grads too. They usually go for similar jobs as Bootcamp grads, but may get rejected because they don't have the "practical" experience (i.e. latest frameworks) Bootcamps grads may have. So instead of grooming and training students with a four year foundation in Computer Science, they go for the cheap route and hire someone who just knows APIs. I admit my post has a lot of generalizations and I…

I would argue that CS grads who do not spend some time learning practical skills on the side are idiots and completely misunderstand the industry they are trying to enter. Bootcamps claim that they can help people who lack the proper foundations or the discipline to learn on their own, these are assets that CS students should have, they should therefore apply their knowledge and training to learn on their own the too…

> I would argue that CS grads who do not spend some time learning practical skills on the side are idiots and completely misunderstand the industry they are trying to enter.

I agree, but then I realize I live in a bubble.

Here and in /r/cscareerquestions, everyone knows to do side projects. In my school, most people don't. Neither do my friends in other schools. They may get one internship but that's the only "practical" thing they do (usually good enough to get a job though). A lot of my friends are much busier than me and don't have time to teach themselves stuff on top of school and life, at least not well enough to get a job.

Perhaps we need to stress a bit more practicality in CS curriculum?

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#17

Post by acconrad »

Hard programming is harder than you think. Coding schools are mostly teaching CRUD web development and a watered-down version of data science aimed at business analysts, which isn't that hard. You're not going to get folks lining up to take an embedded systems, graphics, or compiler bootcamp.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#18

Post by sbov »

gabemart wrote: post #13

I feel like the discussion around this post will suffer from a lack of specificity over what a 'software developer' is. Someone who works primarily on small javascript web applications has a really different job from someone who works on a large application built on a LAMP stack, or someone who writes complex iOS applications, or someone designs self-driving car software for Google, or someone who works on embedded s…

Yet all of those jobs have one thing in common: you have to know how to code. Being able to code is the baseline for all of them. If you can't code on some level, you can't do any of those jobs. The article is about coding, not engineering, the software process, reliability, etc. All of that just further raises the bar.

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#19

Post by kazinator »

gmfawcett wrote: post #9
rdlecler1 wrote: post #2

If a only a small portion of the population will be adept at programming, and training is less important, then it's likely that most of the potential talent does not have formal training incompetent science. Therefore, coding schools should give a second opportunity for those tho did not study computer science in a formal university setting. Learning to code may help reveal those very people.

I assume you meant, "formal training in computer science," not "formal training incompetent science". Autocorrect!!

Autocorrect has real AI now, complete with topic-relevant opinions!

Re: Learn to Code, It's Harder Than You Think

#20

Post by 6stringmerc »

conductr wrote: post #11

I liken coding to playing a musical instrument. Some people are musically inclined, they can learn easily and fast and they tend to the best. But most people require some level of training complimented by the dedication of what amounts to mostly self-practice. So in a way, you're self taught. The vast majority of people are willing to buy an instrument, just to see if they are musically inclined, but when they find o…

This is a pretty fair comparison. Music has a pretty standardized format, relatively speaking, in what 'sounds good' and what sounds 'bad' based on one's cultural upbringing. As in, certain tonalities are pleasing to the ear. From basic understanding and competency comes the ability, in theory, to 'compose' pieces. My experience with coding is similar in that there are good ways to structure a composition, and not-so good ways. In coding, a compiler or testing the program is what reveals if something works or not, much in the same way that playing back a recorded version of a composition can reveal what's good or not good about a musical piece.
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