The Last Dalai Lama? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#11

Post by guard-of-terra » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

awl130 wrote: post #8

Western meddling in Sino-Tibetan affairs by the US government is understandable and is just international politics. But meddling by so-called 'anti-establishment' celebrities is the height of irony. The equivalent of Russell Brandt yelling "Free Tibet" at Glastonbury would be Al Wei Wei (famous Chinese social activist / artist) holding a concert in Shenzhen with proceeds going to some Singapore-based non-profit calle…

Well, I can imagine things like what you describe (regarding Cherokee Nation) and I won't find that especially odd.

But Tibetians are much more numerous and they've lost their independence much more recently, making their case incomparable to that of Cherokee. Your parable is shaky.

You seem to think that Dalai Lama issue is either solely about annoying China, or solely about self-presentation. It is not. People are genuinely interested in Buddhism because it looks elegant and less stained than other major religions.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#12

Post by awl130 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11

awl130 wrote: post #8

Western meddling in Sino-Tibetan affairs by the US government is understandable and is just international politics. But meddling by so-called 'anti-establishment' celebrities is the height of irony. The equivalent of Russell Brandt yelling "Free Tibet" at Glastonbury would be Al Wei Wei (famous Chinese social activist / artist) holding a concert in Shenzhen with proceeds going to some Singapore-based non-profit calle…

Well, I can imagine things like what you describe (regarding Cherokee Nation) and I won't find that especially odd. But Tibetians are much more numerous and they've lost their independence much more recently, making their case incomparable to that of Cherokee. Your parable is shaky. You seem to think that Dalai Lama issue is either solely about annoying China, or solely about self-presentation. It is not. People are…

Would it help you if it were "Free Hawai'i"? That timeline is comparable.

Your last statement confuses me. What does Dalai Lama have to do with Buddhism? The Dalai Lama is not the head of Buddhism but the head of Tibet, which is a tribe seeking a political state. Tibetan Buddhism is a sect of Buddhism practiced beyond Tibetan borders. Much like a great many Shia Muslims live in Iran, but we would not confound Iranian political independence with Shia Islam. Let's not forget Buddha was "born" in present-day Nepal. Certainly, the Dalai Lama is no fool and uses his religion for his political agenda, seeking to perhaps to conflate the two. By your post it seems he is succeeding.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#13

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11

awl130 wrote: post #8

Western meddling in Sino-Tibetan affairs by the US government is understandable and is just international politics. But meddling by so-called 'anti-establishment' celebrities is the height of irony. The equivalent of Russell Brandt yelling "Free Tibet" at Glastonbury would be Al Wei Wei (famous Chinese social activist / artist) holding a concert in Shenzhen with proceeds going to some Singapore-based non-profit calle…

Well, I can imagine things like what you describe (regarding Cherokee Nation) and I won't find that especially odd. But Tibetians are much more numerous and they've lost their independence much more recently, making their case incomparable to that of Cherokee. Your parable is shaky. You seem to think that Dalai Lama issue is either solely about annoying China, or solely about self-presentation. It is not. People are…

> People are genuinely interested in Buddhism because it looks elegant and less stained than other major religions.

Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years and designed to appeal to those with scientific mindset. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's a little propagandistic not to acknowledge it.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#14

Post by xiaq » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #9

The Chinese stance on Dalai Lama is kind of weird: They kind of recognise him, he is free to travel, nontheless they pressure other people to not see him. Seems like they can't explain what they're trying to do to themself.

Obviously they are trying to marginalize him...

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#15

Post by blinkingled » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #13

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can imagine things like what you describe (regarding Cherokee Nation) and I won't find that especially odd. But Tibetians are much more numerous and they've lost their independence much more recently, making their case incomparable to that of Cherokee. Your parable is shaky. You seem to think that Dalai Lama issue is either solely about annoying China, or solely about self-presentation. It is not. People are…

> People are genuinely interested in Buddhism because it looks elegant and less stained than other major religions. Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years and designed to appeal to those with scientific mindset. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's a little propagandistic not to acknowledge it.

>Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years

Invented by white folks? What? Did you perhaps mean they made it mainstream for white people by giving it a western flavor?

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#16

Post by obrero » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

awl130 wrote: post #8

Western meddling in Sino-Tibetan affairs by the US government is understandable and is just international politics. But meddling by so-called 'anti-establishment' celebrities is the height of irony. The equivalent of Russell Brandt yelling "Free Tibet" at Glastonbury would be Al Wei Wei (famous Chinese social activist / artist) holding a concert in Shenzhen with proceeds going to some Singapore-based non-profit calle…

Eleven hours ago a story was published ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10667986 ) about how native Hawaiians don't want what is supposed to be their culturally protected landmark mountain, Mauna Kea, handed over to the local university via what a court ruled an illegitimate permit process. So the expected response was that Hawaii's sovereignty be restored to its natives after the 117 year old forced annexation, and their land be kept by them. Of course, if you look in the thread, this didn't happen. The comments are about how they see "the native Hawaiian culture inferior to my own" and such.

It's the typical western response, great pain at the Tibetan peasants overthrow of the Dalai Lama's theocracy in concert with Chinese communists, yet nothing but scorn for the natives and traditions of their annexed territories like Hawaii.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#17

Post by npalli » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #13

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can imagine things like what you describe (regarding Cherokee Nation) and I won't find that especially odd. But Tibetians are much more numerous and they've lost their independence much more recently, making their case incomparable to that of Cherokee. Your parable is shaky. You seem to think that Dalai Lama issue is either solely about annoying China, or solely about self-presentation. It is not. People are…

> People are genuinely interested in Buddhism because it looks elegant and less stained than other major religions. Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years and designed to appeal to those with scientific mindset. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's a little propagandistic not to acknowledge it.

> Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years

This is astonishing. Can you let us know which buddhist principles were invented by white folks (and by whom) in the past 150 years.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#18

Post by joshuacc » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #5

vinceguidry wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link goes nowhere.

Loads fine over here.

It 404s for me. (In the Southern US.)

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#19

Post by amyjess » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 5:59 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #9

The Chinese stance on Dalai Lama is kind of weird: They kind of recognise him, he is free to travel, nontheless they pressure other people to not see him. Seems like they can't explain what they're trying to do to themself.

It's simple: they don't like him and wish he'd go away, but anything they could do to force him to go away would make him into a martyr, and he'd be even more a pain to them as a martyr than not.

Re: The Last Dalai Lama?

#20

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Dec 03, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #15

Alex3917 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are genuinely interested in Buddhism because it looks elegant and less stained than other major religions. Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years and designed to appeal to those with scientific mindset. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's a little propagandistic not to acknowledge it.

>Because it was basically invented by white folks in the last 150 years Invented by white folks? What? Did you perhaps mean they made it mainstream for white people by giving it a western flavor?

No, iirc the religion was constructed pretty much wholesale during the opium wars to convince people that the Chinese were an intelligent people with a rich cultural history who we shouldn't be genociding. There are a bunch of books about it, this blog post gives an overview of the situation and links to a bunch of the books: https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/a-new-world-rel...

I haven't really spent any time reading up on it, but they talk about it all the time on the Buddhist Geeks podcast, and presumably they'd be in the know since they are/were students at Naropa.