Ok. A devil's advocate question. If US government can monitor US citizen's emails, why shouldn't Chinese govt monitor the emails of Chinese citizens? Of course, there is difference in what the monitoring will lead to in the 2 cases, but the ability to monitor is what it is. right?
Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
11–20 of 47 posts
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#12I find it highly ironic that their criticism implores that Google "stop launching surprise attacks against China." Also very interesting is how Google's recent actions are viewed as some sort of US government-sponsored attempt to export US values.
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#13I suggest we take news from People's Daily - the official list of Communist Party of China - with a grain of salt.
It's interesting to read their spin.
During historical conflicts between the US and nations that didn't have freedom of the press, there are countless stories of the other side's government believing that because their own media was a total sham, regardless of our statements to the contrary, our own media must therefore be full of lies.
The common response to this sort of story is to laugh and say how little they understood the power of a truly free press. And this is true for its part, but it is also true that there is goverment and now corporate propaganda mixed into the "reputable" news. Not of the same scale or variety, but it is there nonetheless.
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#14my favorite part is where the article suggests that google should "stop launching surprise attacks". what did they expect?
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#15I noticed that no where in the article is there any mention of the actual reason that Google came out with this announcement (i.e. they were (cyber) attacked by sources that were presumably linked with the Chinese government). It seems to only be talking about censorship and comparing China to other Western countries.
To be fair, the author perhaps does allude indirectly to the attacks by trying to point out a perceived hypocrisy of Google being willing to operate under the patriot act: To combat terrorism after the "9/11" terrorist attack, the U.S. has permitted police to search civilian emails and even monitor their communications without permission A related post in the side-links does opine on the attacks directly though: Goog…
I'm not quite sure what it means to say the U.S. has "permitted police to monitor communications without permission". Was it permitted or not?
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#16Ok. A devil's advocate question. If US government can monitor US citizen's emails, why shouldn't Chinese govt monitor the emails of Chinese citizens? Of course, there is difference in what the monitoring will lead to in the 2 cases, but the ability to monitor is what it is. right?
Neither of them should. China, in using the US as precedent for doing so, is merely finding an excuse for something it wanted to do anyways - this is not a situation of looking at the US and trying to match capabilities, as you seem to be implying (if the US installed death collars on all citizens, would other nations have some reason to keep up with US capabilities, and therefor need to institute their own death collar plan?)
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#17The title of the article is oddly chosen. Google's customers can only be held 'hostage' by actions taken by the Chinese government. Google is not ceasing to allow customers access to vital data or services - they're simply refusing to follow the arbitrary guidelines set in place by China, and China is blocking access to Google services in response.
So, I agree - Google definitely shouldn't take Chinese netizens or their data as hostages. That's the job of the Chinese government.
This also illustrates how Google's earlier actions (doing business in China in hopes of encouraging the nation to 'open up') have had the opposite effect: Google has handed China a highly effective bargaining chip in the form of their customers' data. If Google had never offered these services in the first place, it would be impossible for their customers to be 'held hostage' by the Chinese government.
To some extent this situation is different for Microsoft - Ballmer was somewhat correct to say in recent discussion that his company has no reason to withdraw from China. The Chinese government has no easy way to hold his customers' data hostage - once you've installed Windows and Microsoft Word onto your PC, it's going to keep working and letting you access your data unless you do something to change that (like connecting to the internet or installing Green Dam), regardless of any disagreement Microsoft may have with your local government. It is only Google's heavy reliance on 'the cloud' for storing users' data that makes this possible.
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#18Bottom line - Baidu outclassed them and they needed to find a way to get out without losing face or having to explain why they were in second place in the largest internet market in the world.
Every other US company has been able to survive except whiny little Google: "Boo hoo, they stole my IP"! Tell that to GE, who are doing just fine in China, thank you very much, IP or no IP.
Google should grow some *alls, stand and fight, or gracefully admit defeat instead of whining.
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, the author perhaps does allude indirectly to the attacks by trying to point out a perceived hypocrisy of Google being willing to operate under the patriot act: To combat terrorism after the "9/11" terrorist attack, the U.S. has permitted police to search civilian emails and even monitor their communications without permission A related post in the side-links does opine on the attacks directly though: Goog…
I'm not quite sure what it means to say the U.S. has "permitted police to monitor communications without permission". Was it permitted or not?
This is why logic is taught in China only when you are learning how to write an essay in GRE.
Re: Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's interesting to read their spin.
During historical conflicts between the US and nations that didn't have freedom of the press, there are countless stories of the other side's government believing that because their own media was a total sham, regardless of our statements to the contrary, our own media must therefore be full of lies. The common response to this sort of story is to laugh and say how little they understood the power of a truly free pre…
I think you overestimate the truthfulness of our mainstream free press and cable news media.