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Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

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11–20 of 35 posts

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#11
post #6

That's great! It's so obvious that it raises the question of why didn't anybody do this before?

For the same reason there's not a big market for robot fights, but then you have UFC, wrestling, boxing, etc with humans.

I see little future for this. If I wanted AI races I would just watch them on any F1 videogame from the last 5 years.

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#12
post #6

That's great! It's so obvious that it raises the question of why didn't anybody do this before?

The whole FE formula is still barely doable, they change cars half way because the batteries run out, can't be charged on the go, can't have batteries swapped out. It's planned to be this way for another four years.

I imagine many other parts of the current, and of the AI formula, are equally only just possible now.

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#13
post #10
post #9

If it weren't for regulations, i am sure F1 would already be like this or close to it. Compared to public traffic, race tracks are quite easy to master for AI. They had active suspension systems and traction control in the early nineties where the driver was already reduced to mostly just pushing the pedal and steering but the FIA banned most of those driver aids because real human driving skill and error is just mor…

Well yeah, it's not much of a sport if there's no one left driving. (Some might say it's not much of a sport anyway, but it seems popular.)

> Some might say it's not much of a sport anyway, but it seems popular

Yeah, that is another argument. Not many people understand that driving a F1 car is hugely physically challenging though and drivers need to be in top shape. Us mere mortals would be exhausted after 2 laps and could not hold our head straight for even one high speed corner.

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#14
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, it's not much of a sport if there's no one left driving. (Some might say it's not much of a sport anyway, but it seems popular.)

> Some might say it's not much of a sport anyway, but it seems popular Yeah, that is another argument. Not many people understand that driving a F1 car is hugely physically challenging though and drivers need to be in top shape. Us mere mortals would be exhausted after 2 laps and could not hold our head straight for even one high speed corner.

Never mind that we wouldn't have the technique and balls to be able to drive around one high speed corner.

Watch Richard Hammond, who's spent more time than 99.9% of us driving fast cars round racetracks, spend an entire day and not getting it quite right: https://youtu.be/EGUZJVY-sHo

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#16
post #6

That's great! It's so obvious that it raises the question of why didn't anybody do this before?

For the same reason there's not a big market for robot fights, but then you have UFC, wrestling, boxing, etc with humans. I see little future for this. If I wanted AI races I would just watch them on any F1 videogame from the last 5 years.

Totally different. I can care a lot about car makers competing in physical although autonomous cars with technology that will possibly make it into mine.

Watching a "simulation" that doesn't even simulate real motors? Where nothing can be fed back to car makers? No thanks.

(On the other hand and in a weird twist of irony I can enjoy cs matches and certain kinds of sports events where my home country has a fair chance of winning. :)

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#18
post #9

If it weren't for regulations, i am sure F1 would already be like this or close to it. Compared to public traffic, race tracks are quite easy to master for AI. They had active suspension systems and traction control in the early nineties where the driver was already reduced to mostly just pushing the pedal and steering but the FIA banned most of those driver aids because real human driving skill and error is just mor…

> Compared to public traffic, race tracks are quite easy to master for AI.

It may be easier to go around a track than drive around a crowded city, but reaching any level of mastery is going to be pushing it. The best racing AIs so far have only reached the level of an average amateur racing driver, doing hotlaps alone in one circuit.

To my best knowledge, no-one has ever put two or more AIs racing on one track. In computer games and simulations, all the AIs either cheat (ie. drive with physics disabled on a pre-set track when they aren't close to the player) or are terribly bad, causing collisions whenever something unexpected happens (e.g. overtaking attempts by the player). I have never raced against a simulator AI that was any good (and I've tried a lot of different games and I do competitive sim racing).

If and when this series will take place, it will be pushing the state of the art forward. There's nothing like it in existance.

This will be very good practice for autonomous drivers. Multi-agent collision avoidance is a very difficult research problem and needs to be solved before there can be large-scale deployment of autonomous vehicles. I presume the cars will be broadcasting their positions (and perhaps even their intentions) to others.

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spread of self driving vehicles (and even drones) is probably an 'accelerating returns' of some sort. Such context will act as a beautiful test bed for complex and limit cases. Unless the results end up locked it will backfire positively on in-society driving.

I would love to see a rule where the software that each team uses has to be open-sourced at the end of the season, both to ensure competitive parity between well funded and not-so-well-funded teams, and also to ensure that any breakthroughs spread quickly from the world of racing to the world of "normal" cars.

It would be interesting to have a stock car version with software open before the race. Teams could try exploits, interfere with GPS, drive evasively, etc. - arguably this will lead to greater hardening techniques, ability to cope with crashes of all types.

Re: Formula E to feature autonomous car racing

#20
post #5

Awesome! Perhaps this could end up in a place where the focus is on the cars and the technical performance, rather than human driver skill. For those of us who are more interested in engineering challenges than the celebrity driver of the day.

Oh no it will be about programmer skill, with celebrity coders.
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