The End of the Internet Dream • Hacker News Board

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#11

Post by obrero » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:20 AM UTC

Twenty years ago, there were hundreds of Internet Service Providers, and each large (and most medium) one gave access to Usenet discussions.

Then with increased monopoly and commercialization, the ISP's shut down, and Verizon and AT&T gained a duopoly over the majority of the US's wired and wireless last mile. With this accomplished, they shut down their Usenet feeds.

A programmer I know calls it digging ditches with air conditioning. Programmers are wage slaves, just a slightly more exalted position than the people who come in at night to empty the waste baskets.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#12

Post by mhurron » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:23 AM UTC

wcummings wrote: post #4

I think Snowden's disclosures were a loss of innocence for many technologists, and this reflects that. I can't imagine this would have been written in his absence.

For the government surveillance parts of the article perhaps, though lets be honest, people were saying TLA's had been watching everything you've been doing for a while before that.

Another large part of the article is corporate control of the internet and that was a problem long before Snowden. That corporations would control the world and use the internet to create a Shadowrun type world was again something people had been warning about as less of the content on the internet was what people put up and more what was curated for you.

The end of the internet as a place for free expression is being driven in large part by the type of people that frequent this site. They're here to make money, a lot of it. And they're going to do what they can to lock you into their way of presenting things to make it very difficult for you to use another basically identical service. They're going to lock you in with your own data, sell it back to you and package you up to sell to others. The death of the internet began long before Edward Snowden showed the world what the other monster on the wires was doing.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#13

Post by afarrell » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:24 AM UTC

> • You won’t necessarily know anything about the decisions that affect your rights, like whether you get a loan, a job, or if a car runs over you. Things will get decided by data-crunching computer algorithms and no human will really be able to understand why.

This isn't a change from the current state of things. For a hundred years, each of these decisions have been made by neural networks which we scarcely understand.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#14

Post by afarrell » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:29 AM UTC

obrero wrote: post #11

Twenty years ago, there were hundreds of Internet Service Providers, and each large (and most medium) one gave access to Usenet discussions. Then with increased monopoly and commercialization, the ISP's shut down, and Verizon and AT&T gained a duopoly over the majority of the US's wired and wireless last mile. With this accomplished, they shut down their Usenet feeds. A programmer I know calls it digging ditches with…

> programmers are wage slaves

What pieces of the concept of slavery are you referring to here?

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#15

Post by knieveltech » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:35 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #10

giaour wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encrypting everything -- HTTP traffic, email, streaming media -- is a good start.

We need to compensate that with having accessible endpoints - otherwise it means that things like[0] won't be possible. Security can be one of the most effective enemies of the Freedom to Tinker. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10609165

Accessibility doesn't necessarily have to be the highest priority. BITD folks would jump through ludicrous numbers of hoops just to gain access to the network. Whether or not this limiting factor improved the quality of interactions online is an open question.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#16

Post by sotojuan » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:37 AM UTC

obrero wrote: post #11

Twenty years ago, there were hundreds of Internet Service Providers, and each large (and most medium) one gave access to Usenet discussions. Then with increased monopoly and commercialization, the ISP's shut down, and Verizon and AT&T gained a duopoly over the majority of the US's wired and wireless last mile. With this accomplished, they shut down their Usenet feeds. A programmer I know calls it digging ditches with…

> Programmers are wage slaves

By this definition, anyone with a job is a wage slave unless they work for themselves. Unless you meant something else, because in the US programmers enjoy salaries and flexibility that many other professionals don't have.

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#17

Post by integraton » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:37 AM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #14

obrero wrote: post #11

Twenty years ago, there were hundreds of Internet Service Providers, and each large (and most medium) one gave access to Usenet discussions. Then with increased monopoly and commercialization, the ISP's shut down, and Verizon and AT&T gained a duopoly over the majority of the US's wired and wireless last mile. With this accomplished, they shut down their Usenet feeds. A programmer I know calls it digging ditches with…

> programmers are wage slaves What pieces of the concept of slavery are you referring to here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#18

Post by afarrell » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

integraton wrote: post #17

afarrell wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> programmers are wage slaves What pieces of the concept of slavery are you referring to here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Yes, I am familiar with the general concept of wage slavery. How does it apply to software engineers without applying to...basically anyone whose main income is not investment?

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#19

Post by Animats » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 4:59 AM UTC

As long as you can read ISIS's Dabiq on line [1], censorship isn't working.

As long as you can read Stormfront's White Pride World Wide [2], censorship isn't working.

Facebook is not the Internet, even if Zuckerberg would like it to be.

[1] http://www.clarionproject.org/docs/islamic-state-isis-isil-d... [2] https://www.stormfront.org

Re: The End of the Internet Dream

#20

Post by brc » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 5:02 AM UTC

sotojuan wrote: post #16

obrero wrote: post #11

Twenty years ago, there were hundreds of Internet Service Providers, and each large (and most medium) one gave access to Usenet discussions. Then with increased monopoly and commercialization, the ISP's shut down, and Verizon and AT&T gained a duopoly over the majority of the US's wired and wireless last mile. With this accomplished, they shut down their Usenet feeds. A programmer I know calls it digging ditches with…

> Programmers are wage slaves By this definition, anyone with a job is a wage slave unless they work for themselves. Unless you meant something else, because in the US programmers enjoy salaries and flexibility that many other professionals don't have.

Even if you work for yourself, you're still working for someone else.

An employee has 1 boss. An entrepreneur has a thousand, a million, whatever the number is.

Working for cash means exchanging value with someone who gives you the cash.

The concept of wage slavery is a tad insulting to those stuck in real slavery.