Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts • Hacker News Board

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#11

Post by bsilvereagle » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:07 AM UTC

I'm really surprised there was no mention of Venturing in this article. Venturing is the program created by the BSA specifically to have multi-gender troops and focus more on high adventure activities.

From the website:

> Venturing is a youth development program of the Boy Scouts of America for young men and women who are 14 years of age OR 13 years of age and have completed the eighth grade and under 21 years of age. Venturing's purpose is to provide positive experiences to help young people mature and to prepare them to become responsible and caring adults.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#12

Post by plcancel » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:11 AM UTC

Isn't there a valuable lesson to teach here?

A group has become dissatisfied with a monopoly on girl scouting and created a more satisfying alternative. They've taken the responsibility upon themselves to create that which they desire.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's the lesson the Unicorns' parents are trying to encourage.

There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting. There's nothing wrong with single-gender scouting. Really.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#13

Post by hartror » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:13 AM UTC

beefsack wrote: post #2

Is it only in the US in which Scouts are called Boy Scouts? It's just been called "Scouts" here in Australia for as long as I can remember, I was a member about 20 years ago and we had quite a few girls in our group back then.

Yeah my troop had plenty of girls in the mid 90s.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#14

Post by forrestthewoods » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:16 AM UTC

If boy scouts want to let in girls that's fine. I also think it's fine if they don't.

I would be annoyed if they let girls in and starting changing things. If you wanted something different then go start something different.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#15

Post by notatoad » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:17 AM UTC

beefsack wrote: post #2

Is it only in the US in which Scouts are called Boy Scouts? It's just been called "Scouts" here in Australia for as long as I can remember, I was a member about 20 years ago and we had quite a few girls in our group back then.

it seems like most countries have moved to co-ed programs. I know it's just been "Scouts" since i was a kid 20 years ago in Canada too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting#Co-educational

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#16

Post by tlrobinson » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:29 AM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #11

I'm really surprised there was no mention of Venturing in this article. Venturing is the program created by the BSA specifically to have multi-gender troops and focus more on high adventure activities. From the website: > Venturing is a youth development program of the Boy Scouts of America for young men and women who are 14 years of age OR 13 years of age and have completed the eighth grade and under 21 years of age…

I assume that's what this is referring to: "While allowing girls to participate in some affiliated programs, it keeps them out of the core scouting curriculum that has built a reputation as the most rigorous youth development program in the nation."

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#17

Post by rustynails77 » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:31 AM UTC

I used to be a leader in the scouts. Before I joined, our scouting group tore itself apart because the previous leader felt that girls should be in girl scouts rather than boy scouts.

When he finally relented, the mothers moved in and asked that activities be 'toned down'. When he refused, the complaints came in thick and fast. The leader was removed and the group collapsed. Nobody stepped up to fill the void.

After I joined, we spent 6 months playing skipping rope games until I asked what the hell we were doing as a group to grow our kids. I joined the Scouts to learn leadership and survival skills for my kids. That's when I got the back story from our group leader (a very capable woman who had also suffered in the skirmish and was afraid to rock the PC boat).

The first change I initiated was to split the group activities into 'soft' activities and 'hard core' activities. Those that wanted to play skipping rope games could. Those that wanted to learn bush survival skills could.

Interestingly, everyone dropped the skipping rope games and we actually started to function as a productive and capable scout group. We quadrupled our numbers in 12 months to the point we could no longer cope without additional leadership because our sixers weren't experienced enough to take up the slack.

I don't have daughters, so I never got involved with girl scouts. While headlines like this raise all sorts of questions about girl scouts in the 21st century, I have no idea about them.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#18

Post by ja27 » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:53 AM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #5

As a Boy Scout we often had sisters of scouts come along on our outings. Half the time one or more parents would come, and it just makes more sense. "Admitting" them as full members is just a formalism on top of the core experience, so why not? Also, it's a shame that these girls don't feel like girl scouts does enough for their sense of adventure and play. The girl scouts should also step up to accommodate them. And…

There's no reason a Girl Scout troop can't do all sorts of adventure activities. My wife led a troop that did all their meetings at a GS camp where they usually cooked over a campfire as part of each meeting.

The biggest blow to Girl Scouts is how they're organized. They're almost always single-age troops, which means there's no scout-to-scout mentoring and there are a lot less scouts per unit. It's much harder to keep a troop alive as the girls get older and there's a lot of consolidation. It's hard to grow new leaders when you only have a dozen parents involved in each unit. Then when a troop breaks up or ages out, the leaders almost always leave scouting.

I've been told it's possible to have a single Girl Scout unit with multiple ages, but I've never seen that. The best I've seen is a couple individual troops that share a common meeting time and place.

For example, my daughter's been in two Girl Scout troops. One is "huge" especially for high school aged girls and has maybe 15 girls from 13 to 15. That troop has had 3 official leaders in the 8 or so years it's been around. Her other troop folded once it dropped to three girls. My son's Boy Scout troop has over 100 boys from ages 11 to 17 and has at least a dozen adults in leadership roles and dozens more registered + background checked "at large" leaders to draw from.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#19

Post by ridiculous_fish » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 2:54 AM UTC

One of the under-appreciated qualities of the Boy Scouts is how the National Council mostly keeps its distance, allowing individual troops to organize themselves. There are fixed requirements for advancement through the Scout ranks, but some troops are focused on outings, some are overtly religious, some are basically Eagle Scout factories for college admissions, etc.

This is a great thing. It means that kids can learn the core skills and values, like leadership, discipline, teamwork, and wilderness survival, and receive recognition for it, even if their parents' faith, political leanings, or goals aren't aligned with the National Council.

I hope the Council leaves it up to the individual troops as to whether they admit girls (or boys, for that matter). Many troops will go co-ed given the opportunity.

And as others have said, the Girl Scouts are not perceived to be as rigorous or prestigious as the Boy Scouts, and should step up their game. It's hard to blame girls for being uninterested in an organization best known for selling cookies.

(Disclosure: Eagle Scout)

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#20

Post by ctdonath » Mon, Nov 23, 2015, 3:11 AM UTC

As potential members flee the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts, two new organizations are providing a return to "hardcore scouting" and respect classic gender differences: Trail Life and American Heritage Girls. They're growing fast, providing traditional values and no "sexual engineering / gender exploration", focusing on the badge work and learning outdoor & life skills. It's what a lot of parents, disgusted with the recent sexualization and wussification of Scouting, are looking for even if derided in popular culture.