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Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

navytimes.com

11–20 of 38 posts

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celestial navigation is way easier than you think it is. We have accurate clocks now, and you can just take the measurements and feed it into the computer.

The point of this training today, I would expect, is that computers might not always be there.

[deleted]

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#12
I was in the last class to have the old celestial navigation class. It's not a difficult thing to do. You take a measurement with a sextant then consult a fifty pound book full of tables, get the two closest numbers to what you want and interpolate.

There are various techniques based on time of day and the stars you can see, but if you're not doing it regularly you're going to have to look up the procedure anyway.

And although you might not always be able to rely on GPS, inertial navigation, dead reckoning, and visual navigation using landmarks, celestial navigation has a huge drawback.

It's defeated by cloud cover and fog.

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of this training today, I would expect, is that computers might not always be there.

If the people on a modern naval ship don't have access to some kind of basic computer, then they have bigger problems than navigation.

A total blackout has happened to a US Navy Ship in recent memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_shi...

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celestial navigation is way easier than you think it is. We have accurate clocks now, and you can just take the measurements and feed it into the computer.

The point of this training today, I would expect, is that computers might not always be there.

GPS depends on satellites to stay in the right place, intact, and powered, as well as the ability to receive authentic RF signals from those satellites.

Celestial navigation requires (the computational equivalent of) a graphing calculator.

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#15
post #12

I was in the last class to have the old celestial navigation class. It's not a difficult thing to do. You take a measurement with a sextant then consult a fifty pound book full of tables, get the two closest numbers to what you want and interpolate. There are various techniques based on time of day and the stars you can see, but if you're not doing it regularly you're going to have to look up the procedure anyway. An…

Not to be overly pedantic, but if you have an accurate timepiece you can get your longitude from averaging sunrise and sunset times. It's not particularly accurate, if you can't see the sun, but could be useful if you where otherwise lost at sea and under total cloud cover for a long period of time.

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#16
Why not instead a "modern" digital sextant consisting of a digital camera and software. Still enables navigation by the stars (or sun) as a backup to GPS without having to spend thousands of man-hours training cadets to do it manually. And while not as accurate as GPS certainly, it would most likely be better than or at least equal to the best human navigators.

You'd harden the system against EMP which is probably a standard requirement of military electronics anyway (I'd hope...)

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#18
post #15
post #12

I was in the last class to have the old celestial navigation class. It's not a difficult thing to do. You take a measurement with a sextant then consult a fifty pound book full of tables, get the two closest numbers to what you want and interpolate. There are various techniques based on time of day and the stars you can see, but if you're not doing it regularly you're going to have to look up the procedure anyway. An…

Not to be overly pedantic, but if you have an accurate timepiece you can get your longitude from averaging sunrise and sunset times. It's not particularly accurate, if you can't see the sun, but could be useful if you where otherwise lost at sea and under total cloud cover for a long period of time.

Do you mean latitude? I remember the days being longer in the summer when I lived at higher latitudes, but I'm having trouble seeing how you could calculate longitude by looking at sunrise/sunset.

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#19
post #12

I was in the last class to have the old celestial navigation class. It's not a difficult thing to do. You take a measurement with a sextant then consult a fifty pound book full of tables, get the two closest numbers to what you want and interpolate. There are various techniques based on time of day and the stars you can see, but if you're not doing it regularly you're going to have to look up the procedure anyway. An…

I'd rather give each sailor a course in the kind of math and programming needed to create the tables.

Re: Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation

#20
Interesting. I've been reading the Aubrey-Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian, and besides looking up what in the world spotted-dog, calipash, staysails, the various and sundry varieties of vessels, or a Magellan jacket are, there's a fair amount of old-time celestial navigation throughout - the constantly documented daily ritual aboard ship is punctuated by the daily observation of noon, and comments on the nutation(?) of the planets... It's pretty amazing how well people were able to fix their positions with such primitive instruments.

I can pick out the Big Dipper at night, and figure out if I'm going east or west by the sun during the day, but that's pretty much the extent of it. I've never been out in the open sea, where I imagine you can actually see the stars well - the day-glo murk from the omnipresent streetlights blots out most of them if you are anywhere near civilization.

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