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Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

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Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#11

Post by almost »

pvg wrote: post #8
almost wrote: post #7

Programming isn't hard, programming is fun! Ok, it is hardish sometimes, but hard in a fun way not hard in the non-fun way this article seems to imply. And I really don't think your first language is all that important, programming is still fun usually, whatever the language. It's only later that we learn the fine art of language snobbery ;)

Hard and fun are not mutually exclusive.

Absolutely, but there is fun-hard and there is hard-work-discouraging-hard and this article seemed to me to be talking more about the latter. In fact I'd say that non-hard programming usually gets not-so-fun (although it still has it's charms)

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#12

Post by run4yourlives »

m0th87 wrote: post #10
shin_lao wrote: post #2

Well, I'm sorry to say I strongly disagree with the mathematics part. Basis in linera algebra are a definitive plus and helped me approach programming in a sensible way.

I think it really depends on what you want to make. How does math help you make a CRUD application, for example?

Not much until you need to actually need to do something with the data, which is usually returned to you in a large, two-dimensional array, basically.

At that point, if you haven't figured out basic algebra at least, you'll have trouble conceptualizing the data. At best, this means you won't be as efficient as you could be, at worst, you'll write buggy code.

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#13

Post by pvg »

almost wrote: post #11
pvg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard and fun are not mutually exclusive.

Absolutely, but there is fun-hard and there is hard-work-discouraging-hard and this article seemed to me to be talking more about the latter. In fact I'd say that non-hard programming usually gets not-so-fun (although it still has it's charms)

I didn't get as far as you in figuring out what it was talking about. Mostly it made me think of Wolfgang Pauli's famous quip - 'It is not even wrong'.

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#14

Post by tptacek »

There's not a lot of math in plugging forms into database rows, or even in plugging values into MSRs and managing interrupts, but there's enough math in general programming that I constantly regret ditching that part of my education.

I am, with surprising regularity, annoyed that I can't pull basic trig out of my head without looking things up --- to say nothing of signal processing and number theory.

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#16

Post by aaronblohowiak »

shin_lao wrote: post #2

Well, I'm sorry to say I strongly disagree with the mathematics part. Basis in linera algebra are a definitive plus and helped me approach programming in a sensible way.

I started programming before I learned algebra, and was a couple years ahead of the class because solving algebra problems was just "running the computer" as I used to call evaluating code in my head. Substitution was just expanding an inline function (at the time i thought of it like copy+pasting the gosub...)

I think that abstract symbol manipulation within a set of constraints facilitates skill transfer between math and programming. Learning to see paterns, to perform abstractions of statements for simplification, to construct something larger out of component parts bottom-up (like simple proofs,) these are all useful skills in both.

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#17

Post by proee »

"Programming is not always intuitive, it's inherently complex, and it's challenging. Once you start feeling like you've gotten a handle on it, you'll learn something new that will make things seem even more complex for a while."

This applies to pretty much any field - engineering, physics, chemistry, even music!

My background is in electrical engineering and it's quite daunting to realize how little I REALLY understand when it comes to the fundamentals... Sure an engineer can make things "go" but they're standing on the shoulders of giants.

Learning is a humbling en devour.

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#18

Post by cellis »

sonofjanoh wrote: post #15

What about game programming? Nobody mentioned it. It's the ultimate test. Try to hack together a simple pool game. You'll be amazed of how much maths and physics go into a simple game that millions use and enjoy.

Not much math. Some simple physics like velocity and momentum transfer that you can learn in a tutorial (in a day). I think it is important to make the distinction between game development (lots of simple math and complex "pluggable" formulas) and game engine development (yes, you need to understand linear algebra,trig, and perhaps calculus).

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#19

Post by derefr »

cellis wrote: post #18
sonofjanoh wrote: post #15

What about game programming? Nobody mentioned it. It's the ultimate test. Try to hack together a simple pool game. You'll be amazed of how much maths and physics go into a simple game that millions use and enjoy.

Not much math. Some simple physics like velocity and momentum transfer that you can learn in a tutorial (in a day). I think it is important to make the distinction between game development (lots of simple math and complex "pluggable" formulas) and game engine development (yes, you need to understand linear algebra,trig, and perhaps calculus).

I believe, when the parent said "hack together a basic pool game," they meant "hack together just enough of a game engine to write a pool game on top of it, and then write said pool game atop it."

Re: Poor, Poor Child. You have no idea.

#20

Post by philwelch »

"As a linguistics major, you're no stranger to the idea that a person is only capable of having thoughts and ideas that can be expressed in their language, and there is no reason to expect programming languages to differ from spoken languages in this area."

I thought this idea (the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) had been discredited.

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