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Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

nature.com

11–20 of 159 posts

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#11
Whether torture is right/wrong good/bad boils down very simply.

First, let's assume that torture works (i.e. it gives us the answers we want). If we assume it doesn't work then there's no point in torture or this debate. There will always be people who claim that torture works, so let's just assume it does indeed work excellently and 100% of the time.

Second, assume that many innocent people are falsely accused and convicted, because that is true (if you don't believe that, just look at the Innocence Project).

Third, if we know that innocent people are sometimes falsely accused and convicted, then it means it could happen to you, your parents, your children.

So now the only question you have to answer is: Are you OK with the scenario where you, an innocent and falsely accused individual, are tortured, in the interest of public safety? If you are not OK with that happening to you or your children, then you cannot support torture for anyone else either. If you are OK with that, then you have two tasks: 1) when are you volunteering as a torture subject to prove you aren't just saying that, and 2) you must convince everyone else that they should be OK with that if it happens to them (or 51% of the population in a democracy). You might succeed on 1) (doubtful) but you will fail on 2) if all of those people also have to complete task 1).

The conclusion is that it's impossible to torture without introducing a double-standard. Sure, we can do that, but that has the same logic as a law like "I can do anything I want, and you can do nothing, because I'm me and you're not me"?

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#12
post #6

My question to anyone who believes this article to be correct is whether they would have found the same sources and type of evidence credible if it had produced the contrary result. If the answer is no, it shows that you should not expect this article to convince any of your intellectual opponents. For the record, I am not sure whether torture works or is morally justified in the circumstances where it has been appli…

One other thing to remember in discussions around torture is that the "ticking bomb" situation simply doesn't happen, as reported by professional interrogators. This means that "ticking bomb" is an outlier scenario and the base moral discussions should not start from there.

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#13
post #10

I think torture should be illegal and I think the "enhanced interrogation" techniques used at Guantanamo are abhorrent. But I also think there are real-world scenarios in which torture is not only moral, but where it would be immoral not to torture. This sounds absurd, but consider this real-life case given in The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy[1]: A woman's car is stolen. Unknown to the thief, her child is slee…

Your argument doesn't work because the evidence pointing to the suspect could be false. Check out the Innocence Project.

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#14

Whether torture is right/wrong good/bad boils down very simply. First, let's assume that torture works (i.e. it gives us the answers we want). If we assume it doesn't work then there's no point in torture or this debate. There will always be people who claim that torture works, so let's just assume it does indeed work excellently and 100% of the time. Second, assume that many innocent people are falsely accused and c…

I'm not okay with innocent family members being imprisoned.

Therefore, no one should be imprisoned ever.

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#15
post #6

My question to anyone who believes this article to be correct is whether they would have found the same sources and type of evidence credible if it had produced the contrary result. If the answer is no, it shows that you should not expect this article to convince any of your intellectual opponents. For the record, I am not sure whether torture works or is morally justified in the circumstances where it has been appli…

Exactly. You should also raise your guard whenever someone is trying to convince you that reality never presents you with hard choices: "So I never have to weigh my aversion to torture against my aversion to the loss of thousands of lives? Hooray!"

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#16
post #14

Whether torture is right/wrong good/bad boils down very simply. First, let's assume that torture works (i.e. it gives us the answers we want). If we assume it doesn't work then there's no point in torture or this debate. There will always be people who claim that torture works, so let's just assume it does indeed work excellently and 100% of the time. Second, assume that many innocent people are falsely accused and c…

I'm not okay with innocent family members being imprisoned. Therefore, no one should be imprisoned ever.

Good point, but it's a matter of extremes: Imprisonment can be undone.

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#17
post #12
post #6

My question to anyone who believes this article to be correct is whether they would have found the same sources and type of evidence credible if it had produced the contrary result. If the answer is no, it shows that you should not expect this article to convince any of your intellectual opponents. For the record, I am not sure whether torture works or is morally justified in the circumstances where it has been appli…

One other thing to remember in discussions around torture is that the "ticking bomb" situation simply doesn't happen, as reported by professional interrogators. This means that "ticking bomb" is an outlier scenario and the base moral discussions should not start from there.

It has actually happened in at least one case (, at least there was believed to be a 'ticking time bomb').[1] In addition, thought experiments are meant to shed light on the limits (if there are such limits) of certain moral principles, or problems with paradigms, much like reductio ad absurdum is a useful tool for reasoning.[2][3]

This is not to say that the torture is justified in the case of a 'ticking time bomb', but it is both a possible situation, and a useful scenario to think about.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/10/world/kidnapping-has-germa...

[2] http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/torture/#CasStuTerTicBom

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not okay with innocent family members being imprisoned. Therefore, no one should be imprisoned ever.

Good point, but it's a matter of extremes: Imprisonment can be undone.

And similarly, torture can be stopped. The time and experience of imprisonment cannot be returned.

Re: Why Torture Doesn't Work: The Neuroscience of Interrogation

#19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not okay with innocent family members being imprisoned. Therefore, no one should be imprisoned ever.

Good point, but it's a matter of extremes: Imprisonment can be undone.

Can the traumatic memory of being in imprisonment can be undone?
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