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E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

nytimes.com

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Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#11

Post by wnevets »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.

>Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW

do they have the legal authority to do so? If they did, I doubt the republican led congress would stand by idly.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#12

Post by empath75 »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.

Much as I'd like to see it happen, bankrupting a multi-billion dollar company isn't something that regulators do on a lark.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#13

Post by grandalf »

drglitch wrote: post #10
idbehold wrote: post #8

Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.

Blue book value that recently dropped because of the emissions scandal? ;) Requiring VW reimburse purchase price would make more sense, but still would not account for time spent having to look for new car etc. On the other hand, there are numerous reports of owners not wanting to return their cars for software updates out of fear that such fixes would change performance characteristics of their vehicle for the worse…

The harm is against society as a whole, not really against the owners.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#14

Post by mzs »

the release itself: http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/bd4379a92ceceeac852...

As alleged in the NOV, VW manufactured and installed software in the electronic control module of these vehicles that senses when the vehicle is being tested for compliance with EPA emissions standards. When the vehicle senses that it is undergoing a federal emissions test procedure, it operates in a low NOx “temperature conditioning” mode. Under that mode, the vehicle meets emission standards. At exactly one second after the completion of the initial phases of the standard test procedure, the vehicle immediately changes a number of operating parameters that increase NOx emissions and indicates in the software that it is transitioning to “normal mode,” where emissions of NOx increase up to nine times the EPA standard, depending on the vehicle and type of driving conditions. In other tests where the vehicle does not experience driving conditions similar to the start of the federal test procedure, the emissions are higher from the start, consistent with “normal mode.”

I have not read a substantive response from any part of VW to today's allegations.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#15

Post by mzs »

idbehold wrote: post #8

Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.

They have prevented the sale of all current model year diesel VWs and that is sensible.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#16

Post by Phlarp »

r00fus wrote: post #9
dexterdog wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all just a play to get us to accept always-on emissions checkers on every car complete with location logging, you know, for verification.

Sure. But that doesn't pardon VW/Porsche of cheating when other vendors did not. Unless this is the tip of the iceberg and everyone is cheating but hasn't been caught yet...

Spoiler alert...

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#17

Post by Scoundreller »

empath75 wrote: post #12
idbehold wrote: post #8

Why doesn't the EPA simply ban the sale of any car manufactured by VW until they start passing the new emissions tests? Even better, begin requiring previously purchased VW cars pass these emissions tests. If the cars don't pass the new emissions tests then VW is required to reimburse the blue book value of the car for false advertising, fraud, and acting in bad faith.

Much as I'd like to see it happen, bankrupting a multi-billion dollar company isn't something that regulators do on a lark.

If X person(s) modified their X car(s) in such a way, they'd be forced to take it/them off the road.

The value of X should not matter.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#18

Post by Alupis »

r00fus wrote: post #9
dexterdog wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all just a play to get us to accept always-on emissions checkers on every car complete with location logging, you know, for verification.

Sure. But that doesn't pardon VW/Porsche of cheating when other vendors did not. Unless this is the tip of the iceberg and everyone is cheating but hasn't been caught yet...

> Unless this is the tip of the iceberg and everyone is cheating but hasn't been caught yet...

Perhaps it's time to examine these standards. Perhaps the standard is what's unreasonable, not the vehicle's emissions.

If these vehicles achieved greater horsepower and greater fuel economy, perhaps the long-term net pollution caused by these vehicles is equal-to-or-less-than the standard allows.

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#19

Post by Alupis »

grandalf wrote: post #13
drglitch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue book value that recently dropped because of the emissions scandal? ;) Requiring VW reimburse purchase price would make more sense, but still would not account for time spent having to look for new car etc. On the other hand, there are numerous reports of owners not wanting to return their cars for software updates out of fear that such fixes would change performance characteristics of their vehicle for the worse…

The harm is against society as a whole, not really against the owners.

How do we go about measuring this "harm"?

Re: E.P.A. Finds More VW Cheating Software, Including in Porsches

#20

Post by empath75 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #17
empath75 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much as I'd like to see it happen, bankrupting a multi-billion dollar company isn't something that regulators do on a lark.

If X person(s) modified their X car(s) in such a way, they'd be forced to take it/them off the road. The value of X should not matter.

'Should' and 'does' aren't always the same thing in real life. You're talking about upending the lives of many thousands of people that depend on their cars to get to work, and lost of people who depend on VW for their pay checks. I'm sure this will all get worked out, but it would be insane to just pull the cars off the road.
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