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The West Is Choked by Fear

spiegel.de

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Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#11

Post by tomhoward »

theotherside wrote: post #4

I am a Muslim. I created a new account, as some will hold that against me. This is just picking on someone who is too weak, uneducated and inarticulate to be able to defend themselves. Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filth…

They are also predominantly impoverished, uneducated and downtrodden, not to mention constantly in the crosshairs, perhaps things are connected?

Plenty of other populations are "impoverished, uneducated and downtrodden" but don't bully and blackmail the rest of the world into being sensitive to their superstitions.

This only ever became an issue through the opportunism of theocratic leaders who routinely promote outrage and self-pity in their downtrodden populations as a way of blaming the west for everything that's wrong in their societies.

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#13

Post by [deleted] »

theotherside wrote: post #4

I am a Muslim. I created a new account, as some will hold that against me. This is just picking on someone who is too weak, uneducated and inarticulate to be able to defend themselves. Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filth…

[deleted]

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#14

Post by rbanffy »

theotherside wrote: post #4

I am a Muslim. I created a new account, as some will hold that against me. This is just picking on someone who is too weak, uneducated and inarticulate to be able to defend themselves. Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filth…

Stop modding theotherside down. This discussion is important.

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#15

Post by lucifer »

rbanffy wrote: post #6
theotherside wrote: post #4

I am a Muslim. I created a new account, as some will hold that against me. This is just picking on someone who is too weak, uneducated and inarticulate to be able to defend themselves. Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filth…

"Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about." It's exactly what this is about. As an almost Atheist (lacking the needed faith to really be one) I find the Quram mildly disturbing (as I do with other sacred texts, the Bible included) in that it proposes to be the absolute truth that admits no questioning. I respect, however, your right to your faith. You may believe in whatever you like, and I will defend you…

"I find the [it] mildly disturbing [...] in that it proposes to be the absolute truth that admits no questioning."

I have a suggestion for you: Head over to Germany and question the "absolute truth" of holocaust: numbers, methods, facts, etc. Lets see how long your "freedom of speech" is respected. (Will post your arrest and incarceration news here on HN!)

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#16

Post by akamaka »

I've heard the reasoning in this article before, and it's deeply flawed.

It's true that we in the West have the right to offend, but being a troll doesn't make you a righteous defender of freedom.. Those cartoons weren't some type of brilliant artwork, they were simple trolling.

While I'll stand up for someone's right to be a troll, they certainly shouldn't expect my support and respect. Instead, that is reserved for the millions who fought and died to establish and protect our freedoms in the first place.

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#17

Post by [deleted] »

mseebach wrote: post #7
theotherside wrote: post #4

I am a Muslim. I created a new account, as some will hold that against me. This is just picking on someone who is too weak, uneducated and inarticulate to be able to defend themselves. Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filth…

> Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about. You don't have, and never had, the right to slander someone in order to pick a fight. Yes it is. And yes I have. At least I have a right to do so without fearing for my life. What I don't have, is a right to have any friends when I'm done expressing myself. > If I went to a bar, found the biggest and dumbest asshole in there and called his mother a filthy whore,…

[deleted]

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#18

Post by rglovejoy »

lucifer wrote: post #15
rbanffy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fuck freedom of speech, it's not what this is about." It's exactly what this is about. As an almost Atheist (lacking the needed faith to really be one) I find the Quram mildly disturbing (as I do with other sacred texts, the Bible included) in that it proposes to be the absolute truth that admits no questioning. I respect, however, your right to your faith. You may believe in whatever you like, and I will defend you…

"I find the [it] mildly disturbing [...] in that it proposes to be the absolute truth that admits no questioning." I have a suggestion for you: Head over to Germany and question the "absolute truth" of holocaust: numbers, methods, facts, etc. Lets see how long your "freedom of speech" is respected. (Will post your arrest and incarceration news here on HN!)

The difference is that the Holocaust is something that really happened, with eyewitnesses and documents to prove it. The stuff in the Bible or the Koran is a matter of faith, and can't be proven by the scientific method. Personally, I think that the Bible and the Koran are a bunch of fairy tales written a long time ago to frighten people into doing things that will keep them from going to hell.

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#19

Post by philk »

akamaka wrote: post #16

I've heard the reasoning in this article before, and it's deeply flawed. It's true that we in the West have the right to offend, but being a troll doesn't make you a righteous defender of freedom. . Those cartoons weren't some type of brilliant artwork, they were simple trolling. While I'll stand up for someone's right to be a troll, they certainly shouldn't expect my support and respect. Instead, that is reserved fo…

If we aren't willing to stand up for unpleasant and offensive things then we aren't willing to stand up for freedom of speech at all.

And frankly, having seen the cartoons, anyone who thinks the cartoonists deserve to either die or face attempts on their lives is a nutcase who we should be willing to stand up to.

Re: The West Is Choked by Fear

#20

Post by jimbokun »

akamaka wrote: post #16

I've heard the reasoning in this article before, and it's deeply flawed. It's true that we in the West have the right to offend, but being a troll doesn't make you a righteous defender of freedom. . Those cartoons weren't some type of brilliant artwork, they were simple trolling. While I'll stand up for someone's right to be a troll, they certainly shouldn't expect my support and respect. Instead, that is reserved fo…

They need all of our support against those who are actively threatening violence as an appropriate response. Such people need to hear in no uncertain terms that we in the West will not tolerate violence in response to expression, even if it is a troll.

If they want to condemn and denounce in no uncertain terms those cartoons or any other kind of expression, fine. But we must never tolerate acts of violence as an acceptable response to an act of speech.

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