Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless • Hacker News Board

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#11

Post by calibraxis » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:20 AM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #5

jzwinck wrote: post #2

"We live in a city with 1.5m people living below the poverty line - that means we have 1.5m people at risk of being homeless." Not exactly. First, the poverty line is federal and does not move with the ebb and flow of NYC life. Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which are not caused by low income. Thir…

> Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which are not caused by low income. I've been homeless, so perhaps you'll forgive me for being biased against thinking like that. I would never class mental illness as a choice, or of poor decisions whilst someone is suffering mental illness as a choice. It sounds t…

Excellent points, and thanks for reliving that triggering-sounding situation to educate people for free. Hope we don't disappoint... too much.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#12

Post by DanielBMarkham » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:20 AM UTC

We need to come up some better language for people who could afford a house in another town, but prefer to live in the open in order to be in some particular geographic spot. "Homeless" is much too broad. Are you homeless if you prefer "high-profile but low-profit" jobs, as this man did? Well sure, but being homeless does not always mean that conditions outside of your control have left you with no place to live, which is the way it's commonly used. Sometimes you make choices to do things you want.

There was a great story a while back about some guys who came to YC and were living in their car -- they thought that everybody just did it that way. They managed to save, get funded, and graduate YC. They all probably have nice places to live now because they made some choices earlier. Not my thing, and they probably wouldn't make those choices again, but at the time it all worked out for them.

People talk about self-driving cars as being the thing that destroys traditional car ownership, but I'm not so sure. If electricity is cheap enough to be almost free, and cars can take themselves from place-to-place without needing any attention, I imagine there would be a lot of folks -- myself included -- who would consider owning a "room that goes places" instead of a traditional home/apartment. Are those people homeless also? Nyah, the word just doesn't work everywhere we try to use it. Need some other term.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#13

Post by buro9 » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:24 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #10

buro9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which are not caused by low income. I've been homeless, so perhaps you'll forgive me for being biased against thinking like that. I would never class mental illness as a choice, or of poor decisions whilst someone is suffering mental illness as a choice. It sounds t…

I'm moved by your story, but wonder what would you propose as a workable alternative for someone in your position? It seems like the requirement that you not share sleeping space makes your situation a very difficult one to address, no? No-cost private hotel rooms seems financially a non-starter.

I read about a scheme in the USA, where they had built single-room accommodation on the edge of some town. These were small huts, no larger than a shed, and held a very small studio/bedsit setup. These were standalone units, basically sheds/huts.

The huts were cheap, and being self-contained they were good tools to help someone re-enter the world of housing, of taking care of housing, of cooking for oneself and cleaning, etc. Training grounds for all the skills you need to survive when you finally get somewhere larger, but also large enough not to give you shelter, security.

They had other things, like a central place to go and socialise, to get used to humans again, and counsellors and support people... but the key thing is a very small space that is yours.

That would be enough... a shed.

It need not be permanent, just enough to lift someone from the very lowest point in their life to a point fractionally above that.

In effect I did this too. For shelter from snow over Winter I would trespass onto building sites after they had closed and would sleep in the site office. It was shelter, there was generally a heater and a kettle. I could make a bed, I would leave the place tidy. But most of all, it was safe and I always felt confident I would survive the night (something I wasn't sure of the times I lay shivering violently under bushes in Manchester).

Little steps, lots of support, understanding. Just giving someone an apartment isn't the answer, it's about supporting people, to help them re-integrate. A home isn't a magic bullet for people not ready to live in one.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#14

Post by anon4 » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

toothbrush wrote: post #8

cubancigar11 wrote: post #6

"I never wanted my problem to be someone else's by asking for charity or living on someone's couch for free," he said. Brave. Men don't get anything for free anyway.

> Brave. Men don't get anything for free anyway. Do you mean that male humans don't get anything for free, or do you mean that as in people? Because in certain societies ( ahem large swathes of Europe) there are social safety nets in place to prevent precisely this type of thing from happening. Lose your job? You get a percentage of your old salary for a fixed number of months to allow you to transition to a new job.…

Not to mention that sunlight, air and water are pretty much free. Most fruits, vegetables and game are also free (though it requires some effort to take, you're not engaged in a traditional capital transaction with another owner), provided you don't hunt it to extinction. Then again, freezing to death in a snow storm is also free. There's lots of free to go around.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#15

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:28 AM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #13

sokoloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm moved by your story, but wonder what would you propose as a workable alternative for someone in your position? It seems like the requirement that you not share sleeping space makes your situation a very difficult one to address, no? No-cost private hotel rooms seems financially a non-starter.

I read about a scheme in the USA, where they had built single-room accommodation on the edge of some town. These were small huts, no larger than a shed, and held a very small studio/bedsit setup. These were standalone units, basically sheds/huts. The huts were cheap, and being self-contained they were good tools to help someone re-enter the world of housing, of taking care of housing, of cooking for oneself and clean…

Informative answer; thank you for that and I wish you the very best in your path to re-integration.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#16

Post by buro9 » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:32 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #15

buro9 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about a scheme in the USA, where they had built single-room accommodation on the edge of some town. These were small huts, no larger than a shed, and held a very small studio/bedsit setup. These were standalone units, basically sheds/huts. The huts were cheap, and being self-contained they were good tools to help someone re-enter the world of housing, of taking care of housing, of cooking for oneself and clean…

Informative answer; thank you for that and I wish you the very best in your path to re-integration.

Oh, I'm done.

I've been off the streets for years, and now have work I love, skills I enjoy, an MSc, and stable accommodation.

But that never lessens the rawness of the memory. Those memories involve traumas, and those don't fade. One lives with ones scars.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#17

Post by aurelianito » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:35 AM UTC

toothbrush wrote: post #8

cubancigar11 wrote: post #6

"I never wanted my problem to be someone else's by asking for charity or living on someone's couch for free," he said. Brave. Men don't get anything for free anyway.

> Brave. Men don't get anything for free anyway. Do you mean that male humans don't get anything for free, or do you mean that as in people? Because in certain societies ( ahem large swathes of Europe) there are social safety nets in place to prevent precisely this type of thing from happening. Lose your job? You get a percentage of your old salary for a fixed number of months to allow you to transition to a new job.…

I think that he is trying to imply that society imposes men the burden to endure things. We cannot complain nor show suffering. If we do so, we are discriminated.

I see this behavoiur a lot.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#18

Post by mettamage » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:38 AM UTC

gloves wrote: post #4

In this particular case, having read the article, it didn't seem as if the man in question really minded the lifestyle of homelessness. There is a perception that to be without a static home is a terrible, terrible thing, but really, I can imagine for someone who appears to have his life together in many other ways (and free from other issues that plight the homeless community such as addictions) - then it could poss…

I have the same opinion and said the same thing in discussions with some friends. Being powerless is the element that needs to dealt with, by being homeless against your will for example.

I could imagine myself being homeless just because I choose to do so. I could also imagine that I'd live in a home and feel imprisoned by obligation. Between those two cases, I'd prefer self-chosen homelessness.

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#19

Post by logicchains » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:42 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #12

We need to come up some better language for people who could afford a house in another town, but prefer to live in the open in order to be in some particular geographic spot. "Homeless" is much too broad. Are you homeless if you prefer "high-profile but low-profit" jobs, as this man did? Well sure, but being homeless does not always mean that conditions outside of your control have left you with no place to live, whi…

>We need to come up some better language for people who could afford a house in another town, but prefer to live in the open in order to be in some particular geographic spot.

How about "homefree" for voluntary homelessness? Much as people who deliberately choose not to have children have adopted the term "childfree" to describe their lifestyle, as opposed to "childless".

Re: Homeless model: New York's hidden homeless

#20

Post by venomsnake » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 10:48 AM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #2

"We live in a city with 1.5m people living below the poverty line - that means we have 1.5m people at risk of being homeless." Not exactly. First, the poverty line is federal and does not move with the ebb and flow of NYC life. Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which are not caused by low income. Thir…

Yeah right ... while some people love to be nomads and not settle permanently, no one chooses to be shelter-less - sleeping outside with improper gear in November rainy night is mightily miserable experience.