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Girl, Bye

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Re: Girl, Bye

#11

Post by eevilspock »

exstudent2 wrote: post #7
eevilspock wrote: post #6

Wow, all of the comments that precede mine are an embarrassment to HN, demonstrate the swift defensive attacks that preclude any possibility of dialogue, and reinforce the notion many have of bro-cognitive dissonance. Turning gray in 3, 2, 1...

You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.

It is her opinion, and it is hyperbole. But the gist of it I get. The sexist attitudes toward women in male dominated areas, from fraternities to sports to the military, are well known, and often these attitudes generate "rapey" behavior, if not outright rape.

From her description he seems to have that kind of attitude, including calling women "chicks".

But as she states in her article, she kept to herself. There is no indication that she share this point of view with him, and more indication that she did not. She specifically stated he knows nothing about her.

In that same paragraph she talked about his innapropriate and unprofessional behavior. If you had any sympathy for what it might be like being a woman, you might be a little more forgiving of her hyperbole, and less forgiving of his calling women "chicks". You might have been taken aback that he went to the manager because he felt "uncomfortable", pointing out that the person who is most justified in feeling uncomfortable was her.

Re: Girl, Bye

#12

Post by exstudent2 »

hypnos1 wrote: post #9

If this kind of post can be dismissed as cliche, its an indication of a problem in the industry and not with the writer. The commenters that preceded me would do well to remember her article is a venting on Tumblr, and not the conversation she had with her co-workers or manager. Denigrating her tumblr post for being an inappropriate work attitude misses the point.

What problem in the industry do you think this is pointing out? Someone told their manager that they were uncomfortable working with her, and she said it's sexism. Seems to me the co-worker did the right thing by going to their manager instead of being a jerk/passive aggressive.

People probably think it's cliche because she uses the air conditioning is patriarchy argument.

Re: Girl, Bye

#13

Post by exstudent2 »

strangecasts wrote: post #10
exstudent2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.

I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature. Since when is liking sports a professional requirement?

I don't like sports. Actually I hate them. Calling anyone/anything "Rapey" is what's unprofessional (to the extreme).

Re: Girl, Bye

#14

Post by marcusgarvey »

exstudent2 wrote: post #7
eevilspock wrote: post #6

Wow, all of the comments that precede mine are an embarrassment to HN, demonstrate the swift defensive attacks that preclude any possibility of dialogue, and reinforce the notion many have of bro-cognitive dissonance. Turning gray in 3, 2, 1...

You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.

Eh, it seems pretty obvious IMO that college sports -- and most professional organized team sports -- are not feminist. Title IX was only passed in 1972. Even the ongoing Louisville prostitution scandal is a clue.

Or do you specifically object to her use of the term "Rapey"? Even then I disagree with your characterization.

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/26/louisville-ba...

Re: Girl, Bye

#15

Post by exstudent2 »

eevilspock wrote: post #11
exstudent2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.

It is her opinion, and it is hyperbole. But the gist of it I get. The sexist attitudes toward women in male dominated areas, from fraternities to sports to the military, are well known, and often these attitudes generate "rapey" behavior, if not outright rape. From her description he seems to have that kind of attitude, including calling women "chicks". But as she states in her article, she kept to herself. There is…

Her whole article made me uncomfortable. She's obviously extremely aggressive and on edge. Male or female, that's not the type of employee you want.

She's looking for slights and grievances wherever she can find them. She should have gone to her manager if "chicks" truly upset her. It would have been much more professional than taking to Tumblr and making issue public before he or the company have a chance to respond.

Re: Girl, Bye

#16

Post by exstudent2 »

marcusgarvey wrote: post #14
exstudent2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.

Eh, it seems pretty obvious IMO that college sports -- and most professional organized team sports -- are not feminist. Title IX was only passed in 1972. Even the ongoing Louisville prostitution scandal is a clue. Or do you specifically object to her use of the term "Rapey"? Even then I disagree with your characterization. [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/26/louisville-ba...

I'm not feminist either. I'm also not a misogynist or a rapist! The vast majority of the people playing college sports are normal, nice people (as with any general population). To label them "Rapey" goes beyond hyperbole.

I have no problem with hating sports, I hate sports. She can hate sports too, great! Claiming that college sports are for rapists is extremely unnerving.

Re: Girl, Bye

#17

Post by zzalpha »

There's a LOT of reading between the lines going on, here. Going from

Matt doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He’s worried that you either don’t like him for some reason, or you’re mad at him. He thinks maybe you’re upset about his recent promotion, because it means you’ll have to do more work to cover for his newfound absence on the team

to

What we’re really saying here is that your unreconcilable feelings toward my lack of enthusiasm for you as a person might distract you from getting your work done.

Seems like an enormous leap.

Here's some advice:

1. Take a breath. 2. Do not vent to your friends. They're your friends. Their job is to be your echo chamber, which is only going to heat you up instead of calming you down. 3. Take another breath. 4. Now try to come up with a rational, constructive way forward.

The simplest, most reasonable response to this little intervention by your manager is the most obvious: tell him you're surprised, that you have no problem with your co-worker's success, and that if there's concerns they're free to talk to you directly, as you didn't realize there was a problem in the first place.

Then move the hell on.

This is the other person's problem, not yours, and escalating it like this, turning it into some personal, angry vendetta, only makes things worse.

And before folks suggest I wouldn't offer this advice to a man in this situation, rest assured, I would. In fact, I've personally been on the other side of exchanges like this. It's incredibly easy to stew and vent and transform the exchange from a stupid misunderstanding into a personal vendetta, with them cast as villain and you cast as misunderstood victim. And god knows it feels good... how exhilarating is it to get self-righteously pissed off? It's very addictive. Dangerously so.

The solution, regardless of the genders involved, is to be mature, erring on the side of assuming it's a basic human misunderstanding.

It's part of being an adult in a world where not everyone else is.

Re: Girl, Bye

#18

Post by lukev »

exstudent2 wrote: post #12
hypnos1 wrote: post #9

If this kind of post can be dismissed as cliche, its an indication of a problem in the industry and not with the writer. The commenters that preceded me would do well to remember her article is a venting on Tumblr, and not the conversation she had with her co-workers or manager. Denigrating her tumblr post for being an inappropriate work attitude misses the point.

What problem in the industry do you think this is pointing out? Someone told their manager that they were uncomfortable working with her, and she said it's sexism. Seems to me the co-worker did the right thing by going to their manager instead of being a jerk/passive aggressive. People probably think it's cliche because she uses the air conditioning is patriarchy argument.

What problem is this pointing out? Sexism, obviously.

And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint.

In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.

Re: Girl, Bye

#19

Post by exstudent2 »

lukev wrote: post #18
exstudent2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem in the industry do you think this is pointing out? Someone told their manager that they were uncomfortable working with her, and she said it's sexism. Seems to me the co-worker did the right thing by going to their manager instead of being a jerk/passive aggressive. People probably think it's cliche because she uses the air conditioning is patriarchy argument.

What problem is this pointing out? Sexism , obviously. And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint. In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.

I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.

Re: Girl, Bye

#20

Post by marcusgarvey »

exstudent2 wrote: post #16
marcusgarvey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it seems pretty obvious IMO that college sports -- and most professional organized team sports -- are not feminist. Title IX was only passed in 1972. Even the ongoing Louisville prostitution scandal is a clue. Or do you specifically object to her use of the term "Rapey"? Even then I disagree with your characterization. [1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/26/louisville-ba...

I'm not feminist either. I'm also not a misogynist or a rapist! The vast majority of the people playing college sports are normal, nice people (as with any general population). To label them "Rapey" goes beyond hyperbole. I have no problem with hating sports, I hate sports. She can hate sports too, great! Claiming that college sports are for rapists is extremely unnerving.

You are misrepresenting her statement in a very big way. Read it again:

"I think the entire college sports organization is embarrassing, antiquated and Rapey with a capital 'R.'"

Organization, as in "institution."

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