Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?
The Hostile Email Landscape
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Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#12Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#13If none of these major services ever learned that his server was OK, it's likely that users weren't unmarking the mail he sent as spam. And that leads to the question of why not.
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#14Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
something like EV certificates for smtp servers?
Certificates for SMTP servers are meaningless without DNSSEC because crossdomain email servers are a thing.
If you're worried about the fact that your mail host and web host can now impersonate each other, we can just define a new X.509 extension for "I can only be used for email". You might even be able to get away adding a new option to the existing Extended Key Usage field, but it's possible that enough clients don't enforce it rigorously enough.
Ideally, you'd also want an SMTP equivalent of strict transport security.
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#16Once upon a time, to send email, you needed to use SMTP. Now, you must use SMTP, from a IP block that isn't categorized as residential, and which has never before had any association with outgoing spam, and you also must implement several ad-hoc identification protocols like SPF and reverse DNS. You should also use a domain name that you've owned for some time and which is not expiring soon. Every system to which you want to send mail will give different weights to all these signals. If they don't like you, their behavior is to report successful delivery and then silently hide messages from their intended recipients.
Spam is no fun, but the present situation is pretty weak too.
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#17It turns out that creating a successful product in the email space requires you to build relationships and partnerships with the existing vendors/providers. It takes a lot of work, and is part of what you pay for when using Mailgun/Mandrill/etc.
These "greylists" and systems that drop mail from unknown IPs have been pretty carefully designed and tuned to combat the insane amount of spam out there. They work remarkably well, and for most of today's email users, spam is no longer an issue. (The current state of email abuse innovation is promotions/marketing/etc. which is a more subtle challenge.)
At the end of this article, the author writes, "This isn't how the internet is supposed to work." Ironically this system of obscure reputation-based email is a direct result of how the email system was actually designed to work, with a total lack of permissions or feedback loop. Many SMTP servers used to not even require a password.
Stuff like DKIM/SPF and DMARC is a step in the right direction. But the RFCs upon which our email system is based were written decades ago, and in many cases have fundamental flaws, like SMTP leaking metadata no matter what. I could go on and on about issues with email, and why I care about getting them fixed, but let's just say it was designed in a different era of Internet with different constraints and opportunities.
So how do you build a new email service and not get blocked? Well, you spend a few weeks or months emailing, calling, Skyping, and meeting with folks in the current space. You work your way up through marketing support and random protocol discussion lists until you are talking with the folks who can influence which IPs are blocked/unblocked. Then you convince them you are (1) building a legit venture, (2) are worthy of their trust, and (3) don't directly compete with them. Then you'll get a small number of clean IPs and you must not screw up!
There are a few hacks, like sometimes a single partner/vendor will sell you a block of clean IPs and help manage the spam reputation. But usually it's just a lot of sweat and annoying phone calls. It takes way, way longer than setting up SPF/DKIM. The challenge is more relationships than technical.
Once you have a new email sending provider, the burden shifts to you for doing abuse/spam prevention. And you find yourself implementing many of the strategies and systems you cursed when getting started. But that's the circle of rfc2822 life I guess.
Oh, and never use EC2 IPs for sending mail. Most of them have been burned by spammers.
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#18The problem is not so much the attitude of the big guys. It is that smtp is fundamentally broken. we need a better mail protocol that ensures: 1. Traffic always encrypted and content always signed 2. Guarantee that the sender is who it claims he is 3. Decorrelating the email from the domain, a lot of users are prisoners of their current provider just because the address they gave everyone ends with the provider's dom…
https://github.com/ssbc https://github.com/ssbc/secure-scuttlebutt https://github.com/ssbc/scuttlebot
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#19The problem is not so much the attitude of the big guys. It is that smtp is fundamentally broken. we need a better mail protocol that ensures: 1. Traffic always encrypted and content always signed 2. Guarantee that the sender is who it claims he is 3. Decorrelating the email from the domain, a lot of users are prisoners of their current provider just because the address they gave everyone ends with the provider's dom…
Not to get all handwavey, but I think this is why some people are super excited about bitcoin becoming 'part of the internet'. There are definitely some areas where we need a concept of identity & trust, and bitcoin seems like one of the first truly distributed ways of doing it.
Re: The Hostile Email Landscape
#20The problem is not so much the attitude of the big guys. It is that smtp is fundamentally broken. we need a better mail protocol that ensures: 1. Traffic always encrypted and content always signed 2. Guarantee that the sender is who it claims he is 3. Decorrelating the email from the domain, a lot of users are prisoners of their current provider just because the address they gave everyone ends with the provider's dom…
Because the SMTP cabal is fanatically opposed to changing it.
The response I had 15 years ago was "It takes 10 years to deploy any serious changes to a protocol".
Uh... so? Does that mean we shouldn't do it?
Apparently, yes. 15 years later, there have been no substantive changes to SMTP.
Repeat after me, SMTP is perfect. It's perfect! Well, there are a few known issues. But it's deployed! It's too hard to change. You're trying to change it? You're a terrible person who doesn't understand SMTP.
I got that for 5 years before giving up and going to more productive lines of work.