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Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#11

Post by x03 »

drinchev wrote: post #2

Ah... Media these days. I can't trust anyone, anymore. I guess, best thing to do is not to have opinion at all. I'm having a GPS in my pocket, I can browse most of the cities from my computer through Google Earth. I can talk to my watch, which replies and sends messages for me, but not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence, like radar logs of some…

Adam Curtis, a documentary film-maker and journalist, has a brilliant aptitude at analysis in this area. His work in general, at the intersection of reporting and politics, is pretty excellent.

It is some malice, more than you might expect; with with a great dollop of ineptitude, far more than you might expect; that allows this climate of total disorientation to exist.

Take some of his thoughts:

> "Politicians used to have the confidence to tell us stories that made sense of the chaos of world events.

> "But now there are no big stories and politicians react randomly to every new crisis - leaving us bewildered and disorientated.

> "And journalism - that used to tell a grand, unfurling narrative - now also just relays disjointed and often wildly contradictory fragments of information.

> "Events come and go like waves of a fever. We - and the journalists - live in a state of continual delirium, constantly waiting for the next news event to loom out of the fog - and then disappear again, unexplained."

The rest of that article is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/ae14be85-3104-...

And the documentary-film that he's referring to in that post, Bitter Lake, is available on iPlayer (for British viewers...or people on a VPN...), here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam-curtis-bi...

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#12

Post by yc1010 »

I was born in the Soviet Union during its dying years back then everyone knew the system was corrupt, inefficient and basically a pile of bullshit and thankfully it all fell apart.

I still remember having to queue hours to get bread from bakery, and not seeing toilet paper, milk or meat for some time... Anyone who wants to go back to those days is insane imho :(

My parents and older generation of relatives mostly watch Russian news and entertainment channels via satellite, and the unashamed propaganda and brainwashing is incredible to behold, whats worse is how my parents/relatives believe everything they hear even if it is absolutely absurd or borderline conspiracy crazy.

We often argue nowadays about the direction Russia has taken, but usually the arguments end once i ask "where would you want your grand children to grow up, here in the western Europe or back home", that's when they go quiet.

They truly believe that Putin is some sort of a genius (ignoring the rise in oil prices that helped him) and this is actually downright scary :( at least in the Soviet days people didn't buy the propaganda, now a lot of people seem to actually believe all they hear and see, and live under a sort of a massive reality distortion field where the world is out to destroy Russia and its people.

aside: interestingly enough back then the collapse of USSR was partly prompted by low oil prices and a stupid war with Islamists, fast forward 30+ years and economy is even more reliant on resource extraction and Putin is boldly marching into another quagmire

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#13

Post by calgoo »

What I don't understand is how so many people can still watch TV news and believe what they say. Every news show I have seen in the last 10 years or more is complete BS and exists in a reality bubble where bad things happen but everything is fine as a kitten was saved in the end of the show. Why do they hold so much power? I can understand 50+ year olds maybe, but young people? Are you telling me young people look on their TV and believe that dictator is actually telling the truth? We know the western TV is BS, but so is theirs. Its not about one or the other, its about not believing anything at face value and actually educate yourself.

Sorry about the rant, its just something that surprises me continually.

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#14

Post by 3princip »

ck2 wrote: post #8

Is this the same missile that was launched from a mobile carrier that arrived from across the Russian border and then days later was driven back across the border? Putin is extremely manipulative and dangerous. Like a Kim Jong-un without anyone like China to tell him "no". I'm surprised no-one points out he is basically on the third term of what should be a two term limit. That alone removes all legitimacy from his r…

Putin is manipulative and dangerous, while the US and NATO continue to expand their military influence worldwide, but they're benign, right?

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#15

Post by etaty »

There is propaganda in every countries, just look at who own the media... My opinion, is some extreme right groups did Maidan massacre ( http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31359021 ), and they were ready to do more. See how IS developed in Syria. Same story. Libya same story. Also look at Egypt... Some countries are pushing other countries politics...

Now, what can we do?

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#16

Post by richardwigley »

Odd and interesting to read. I would have guessed a larger percentage of Russians got their views online.

I would also think that most online news written in Russian would be under control of state media. In which case, if they did start to use the Internet to find news then nothing would change.

Maybe a Russian nytimes.com?

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#18

Post by dsfyu404ed »

drinchev wrote: post #2

Ah... Media these days. I can't trust anyone, anymore. I guess, best thing to do is not to have opinion at all. I'm having a GPS in my pocket, I can browse most of the cities from my computer through Google Earth. I can talk to my watch, which replies and sends messages for me, but not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence, like radar logs of some…

>But not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence.

Assume for a minute that the CIA had that sort of in depth coverage of the event. Assume they know everything from the serial number of the warhead to the crew-members' favorite vodka.

Why would they, or any other intelligence agency risk burning even the tiniest shred of information on an event that open sources have done a pretty good job covering?

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#19

Post by noamyoungerm »

calgoo wrote: post #13

What I don't understand is how so many people can still watch TV news and believe what they say. Every news show I have seen in the last 10 years or more is complete BS and exists in a reality bubble where bad things happen but everything is fine as a kitten was saved in the end of the show. Why do they hold so much power? I can understand 50+ year olds maybe, but young people? Are you telling me young people look on…

Why do you think old people and young people should behave differently?

Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters

#20

Post by Avalaxy »

3princip wrote: post #14
ck2 wrote: post #8

Is this the same missile that was launched from a mobile carrier that arrived from across the Russian border and then days later was driven back across the border? Putin is extremely manipulative and dangerous. Like a Kim Jong-un without anyone like China to tell him "no". I'm surprised no-one points out he is basically on the third term of what should be a two term limit. That alone removes all legitimacy from his r…

Putin is manipulative and dangerous, while the US and NATO continue to expand their military influence worldwide, but they're benign, right?

That's a fallacy. NATO is being invited by these countries. Eastern European countries are basically begging for NATO protection. What Russia does there is pretty different, they invide a sovereign country that doesn't want them there.

Of course if you're talking about the useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan you're right.

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