America as Texas vs. California, Part III • Hacker News Board

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#11

Post by SamAtt » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 7:01 PM UTC

scotch_drinker wrote: post #10

jsm386 wrote: post #5

Wait, they are holding up Texas schools as an example of great schools? This post references, along with the quote, this: "Despite this, Texas kids are one to two years of learning ahead of California kids of the same age. And blacks, whites, and Hispanics all do better in school in Texas than they do in California." So they're two years ahead. Two years ahead of what exactly? After three all-day meetings and a blizz…

Holding up the teaching of evolution as the example of Texas education is disingenuous at best. Yes, Texas has a history of doing very odd things as it relates to topics like sex education and evolution but these things are so tiny in the broad context of a K-12 level education that they are effectively meaningless. When it comes down to it, whether a kid is taught evolution or some far-fetched creationist theory abo…

I'm just replying to draw attention to your very important point. There is content and there is methodology. Texas might be teaching backwards content but the question this series of articles has been raising is whether the methodology used in their schools is more effective. So unless the content is so backwards as to be more simplistic (say if they were leaving evolution out completely) I don't see how their backwards beliefs are relevant.

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#12

Post by ardit33 » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 7:02 PM UTC

doki_pen wrote: post #4

The real question is, why is living in California so much more desirable then living in Texas? If Texas was as desirable, would they have some of the same problems? Ultimately a state(in the US) is made up of citizens, not land or government.

I dunno. Why do people line up in a club and pay $20 cover to get in, while the pub next door has no cover, no lines, and cheaper/better beer?

CA is like that club, where the cover has gotten so expensive, yet the decor is getting old/outdated, and people are deciding it is not worth it anymore.

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#13

Post by joe_the_user » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 7:15 PM UTC

nihilocrat wrote: post #6

3pt14159 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely a cost of living problem in California, but who's fault is that? Houses in Texas cost 1/2 to 1/4 their California counterparts for a reason. The point is that Texas has held a pretty fiscally conservative line in the past decades while allowing a pretty liberal zoning policy, this allows them to afford proper education because teachers don't need crazy high pay for houses that are in short supply.

That could be very true, but it's not the point he's trying to make. He is using spending figures as if they were on equal footing: Just look at Texas, which spends 12 percent less per pupil with a similar kind of population but does significantly better educating its kids. I see no discussion of cost of living, fiscal policies, or zoning.

I don't see the original article providing any evidence for it's assertion.

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#14

Post by gyardley » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 7:20 PM UTC

doki_pen wrote: post #4

The real question is, why is living in California so much more desirable then living in Texas? If Texas was as desirable, would they have some of the same problems? Ultimately a state(in the US) is made up of citizens, not land or government.

Living in California is more desirable than living in Texas? That might be true for you, but is it true in general?

If we accept the cost of a one-way U-Haul as a proxy for desirability, as http://blog.american.com/?p=9141 does, it suggests that many more people are moving from California to Texas than vice versa, which (if you believe people act on their desire) suggests that Texas is currently a more desirable place to live than California.

Anyone with time to do the work can get data on net inflows and outflows directly from the IRS, starting here:

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=212718,00.html

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#15

Post by jbooth » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 7:37 PM UTC

scotch_drinker wrote: post #10

jsm386 wrote: post #5

Wait, they are holding up Texas schools as an example of great schools? This post references, along with the quote, this: "Despite this, Texas kids are one to two years of learning ahead of California kids of the same age. And blacks, whites, and Hispanics all do better in school in Texas than they do in California." So they're two years ahead. Two years ahead of what exactly? After three all-day meetings and a blizz…

Holding up the teaching of evolution as the example of Texas education is disingenuous at best. Yes, Texas has a history of doing very odd things as it relates to topics like sex education and evolution but these things are so tiny in the broad context of a K-12 level education that they are effectively meaningless. When it comes down to it, whether a kid is taught evolution or some far-fetched creationist theory abo…

It's not disingenuous, it goes to the core of what people believe education should be.

Most of us believe education should be about imparting knowledge as well as "how to think".

It should not be about ideological indoctrination. We're not communists. EDIT: heck, the soviets even did a better job than us of teaching math

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#16

Post by doki_pen » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 10:34 PM UTC

gyardley wrote: post #14

doki_pen wrote: post #4

The real question is, why is living in California so much more desirable then living in Texas? If Texas was as desirable, would they have some of the same problems? Ultimately a state(in the US) is made up of citizens, not land or government.

Living in California is more desirable than living in Texas? That might be true for you, but is it true in general? If we accept the cost of a one-way U-Haul as a proxy for desirability, as http://blog.american.com/?p=9141 does, it suggests that many more people are moving from California to Texas than vice versa, which (if you believe people act on their desire) suggests that Texas is currently a more desirable plac…

Why do we choose U-Haul and not housing costs? It seems obvious to me that everything is more expensive in California, including U-Haul. It's cherry picking.

Re: America as Texas vs. California, Part III

#17

Post by doki_pen » Fri, Jan 08, 2010, 10:40 PM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #15

scotch_drinker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holding up the teaching of evolution as the example of Texas education is disingenuous at best. Yes, Texas has a history of doing very odd things as it relates to topics like sex education and evolution but these things are so tiny in the broad context of a K-12 level education that they are effectively meaningless. When it comes down to it, whether a kid is taught evolution or some far-fetched creationist theory abo…

It's not disingenuous, it goes to the core of what people believe education should be. Most of us believe education should be about imparting knowledge as well as "how to think". It should not be about ideological indoctrination. We're not communists. EDIT: heck, the soviets even did a better job than us of teaching math

Ideological indoctrination is an important part of the US education system. But we should be indoctrinating children to the American philosophy and not some anti-american religious ideas. This builds a stronger society and goes a long way to destroy tribalism.