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Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

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Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#11

Post by jacquesm »

FreakyT wrote: post #8
kitd wrote: post #3

One crucial point made in this article which had somehow passed me by is how devoid of credibility the West's intelligence agencies have become. I know it has been known for a while since Snowden, but the implications are far-reaching. It has come to something when social media can point the same spotlight on whole armies doing things they would rather keep secret as it has done on politicians doing the same.

Wait, what? Western intelligence came to the conclusion pretty early on that Russian separatists were to blame -- only Russia's intelligence still contradicts the content of this article, insisting that Ukraine was at fault.

And Russia's politicians and the so-called rebels. In NL there is a ton of activity on various newspaper and news websites trying to discredit the report. Makes you wonder how much of that activity is due to organizations such as this:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-professional-trolls-hel...

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#12

Post by r721 »

jacquesm wrote: post #11
FreakyT wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? Western intelligence came to the conclusion pretty early on that Russian separatists were to blame -- only Russia's intelligence still contradicts the content of this article, insisting that Ukraine was at fault.

And Russia's politicians and the so-called rebels. In NL there is a ton of activity on various newspaper and news websites trying to discredit the report. Makes you wonder how much of that activity is due to organizations such as this: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-professional-trolls-hel...

Here's an article on this particular topic trolls:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/13/russias-reality-trolls-a...

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#13

Post by TeeWEE »

panamafrank wrote: post #7

There's good on book on MH17 that was published a while ago: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MH17-story-shooting-Malaysian-airlin... It came to a similar conclusion as the dutch report, the main issue with the dutch report is it's too little to late and the government had repeatedly delayed publishing it while they searched for a way to indirectly accuse Russia. The dutch report is quite weak in that it won't take the next l…

The problem here is that the politics don"t want to have issues with Russia, the researches even say: 'We don"t have the mandate make accusations'... Basically the dutch goverment prevented them from accusing russia, because thats politically dangerous.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#14

Post by TeeWEE »

I"m from the netherlands, and i can say that the dutch report, didnt blame anybody, because the researchers didnt have the 'mandate'. Basically they didnt have the right the blame russia. Its clear from all the facts that this is from russian-sepepratist.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#15

Post by 07d046 »

jacquesm wrote: post #10

"Meanwhile, Russian officials denied the allegation. Officials of the producer of the Buk missile, Almaz-Antey, told a news conference on Tuesday that they had carried out their own analysis of traces found on the aircraft. They said even if the jet was shot down by a Buk, it was an old type that is no longer used by the Russian military. The official also hinted that the missile was fired from a village in the Donet…

The report that this article is based on discusses this and concludes: "Alternative scenarios presented by the Russian Ministry of Defense and Almaz-Antey are at best deeply flawed, and at worst show a deliberate attempt to mislead using fabricated evidence."

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/08/mh1...

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#16

Post by jevgeni »

panamafrank wrote: post #7

There's good on book on MH17 that was published a while ago: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MH17-story-shooting-Malaysian-airlin... It came to a similar conclusion as the dutch report, the main issue with the dutch report is it's too little to late and the government had repeatedly delayed publishing it while they searched for a way to indirectly accuse Russia. The dutch report is quite weak in that it won't take the next l…

Well, I think their priority was producing a watertight conclusion.

The next logical step will be taken by the Dutch criminal investigation due to be completed at the end of the year and published in the beginning of 2016.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#17

Post by psykovsky »

07d046 wrote: post #15
jacquesm wrote: post #10

"Meanwhile, Russian officials denied the allegation. Officials of the producer of the Buk missile, Almaz-Antey, told a news conference on Tuesday that they had carried out their own analysis of traces found on the aircraft. They said even if the jet was shot down by a Buk, it was an old type that is no longer used by the Russian military. The official also hinted that the missile was fired from a village in the Donet…

The report that this article is based on discusses this and concludes: "Alternative scenarios presented by the Russian Ministry of Defense and Almaz-Antey are at best deeply flawed, and at worst show a deliberate attempt to mislead using fabricated evidence." https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/08/mh1...

The Bellingcat guy must like polonium tea. Brave dude.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#18

Post by JulianMorrison »

jacquesm wrote: post #10

"Meanwhile, Russian officials denied the allegation. Officials of the producer of the Buk missile, Almaz-Antey, told a news conference on Tuesday that they had carried out their own analysis of traces found on the aircraft. They said even if the jet was shot down by a Buk, it was an old type that is no longer used by the Russian military. The official also hinted that the missile was fired from a village in the Donet…

I think Russia is aiming its obvious bullshit at Russians, where the media is entirely propaganda. Provided they don't actually admit it, they can spin it.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#19

Post by maxerickson »

panamafrank wrote: post #7

There's good on book on MH17 that was published a while ago: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MH17-story-shooting-Malaysian-airlin... It came to a similar conclusion as the dutch report, the main issue with the dutch report is it's too little to late and the government had repeatedly delayed publishing it while they searched for a way to indirectly accuse Russia. The dutch report is quite weak in that it won't take the next l…

ICAO investigations explicitly avoid casting blame. I guess the idea is that it is important to be able to do safety investigations even in intransigent jurisdictions:

http://www.icao.int/secretariat/postalhistory/annex_13_aircr...

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#20

Post by captn3m0 »

psykovsky wrote: post #17
07d046 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report that this article is based on discusses this and concludes: "Alternative scenarios presented by the Russian Ministry of Defense and Almaz-Antey are at best deeply flawed, and at worst show a deliberate attempt to mislead using fabricated evidence." https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/08/mh1...

The Bellingcat guy must like polonium tea. Brave dude.

For those who didn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...
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