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IA or AI?

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Re: IA or AI?

#11

Post by jhanschoo »

otoburb wrote: post #5

"[...] good notation is worth a whopping increment in IQ points. Except that the really good ones allow one to have thoughts that are impossible without." I posit this post tangentially explains the nagging feeling that many parents[1] experience when their children struggle with mathematics. The benefits of basic language literacy are clear, but follow-on analogies such as the above emphasize a point of view conclud…

i believe that the false dichotomy was used in order to attract clicks and to provide context for the relevance of IA. The article hardly talks about AI at all except that it was the AI agenda which IA was born from.

Re: IA or AI?

#12

Post by logicchains »

mziel wrote: post #9
Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

> A lot of problems suddenly disappear. Not to be negative but citation needed. Also (I guess we'll cross "isolation" of the list): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_giftedness#Social...

>Isolation is one of the main challenges faced by gifted individuals, especially those with no social network of gifted peers. In order to gain popularity, gifted children will often try to hide their abilities to win social approval.

That seems to suggest the cause of the problem is a lack of high IQ individuals. If the majority had a high IQ due to IA, nobody would feel isolated by their high IQ (although then the low IQ minority might feel isolated).

Re: IA or AI?

#13

Post by Practicality »

mziel wrote: post #9
Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

> A lot of problems suddenly disappear. Not to be negative but citation needed. Also (I guess we'll cross "isolation" of the list): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_giftedness#Social...

An interesting point. I think your citation adds to the point though.

In observing my "normal" peers, honestly, they do a lot of very strange things just to be considered normal.

I mean, it's pretty expensive just to keep up with current trend of sunglasses size or sock length, just to be seen as normal.

Not to mention that you have to hold your hands a certain way and talk incoherently.

There is a lot of "normalizing" behavior that becomes unnecessary when everyone has the capacity to see how inane and impractical such behavior really is.

Re: IA or AI?

#14

Post by johnchristopher »

Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

> It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear.

Except most `genius IQ' don't end up as high achievers or even happier persons.

Re: IA or AI?

#15

Post by barteklev »

Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

I would rethink statement, that AI doesn't change people. In my opinion it does it indirectly. AFAIK it's well documented fact that Google has changed the way our brains work. Would it be possible if Google had no AI? I ask, don't realy know.

How about computer games? I daresay that experience created with them can be beneficial to inteligence. Interaction with AI in games happen to be interesting to take a look at.

Except that think that process of creating AI is an IA experience. If you want to make AI you wonder what make you inteligent. As you observe your outcome you understand your inteligence better. Better understanding better inteligence.

All in all, I don't get why AI would exclude IA (or oposite). Although I'm grateful for sharing an idea of IA.

Re: IA or AI?

#16

Post by Practicality »

johnchristopher wrote: post #14
Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

> It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. Except most `genius IQ' don't end up as high achievers or even happier persons.

I think this is because they spend most of their lives dealing with unnecessary conflict and isolation since most people don't understand them. Being a genius doesn't remove the need for social acceptance built into human beings.

As such many with a genius IQ pretend not to be in order to be accepted. So their talents are wasted.

However, if everyone was augmented there would be no need to pretend to be "normal" just to be accepted. So much more could then be accomplished.

In fact, I think today's "normal" would be tomorrow's "intellectual disability."

There are many successful geniuses as well. And those are often wildly successful. Again, if everyone was that way it would be acceptable, rather than odd, to care about real achievements.

Re: IA or AI?

#17

Post by amirouche »

otoburb wrote: post #5

"[...] good notation is worth a whopping increment in IQ points. Except that the really good ones allow one to have thoughts that are impossible without." I posit this post tangentially explains the nagging feeling that many parents[1] experience when their children struggle with mathematics. The benefits of basic language literacy are clear, but follow-on analogies such as the above emphasize a point of view conclud…

> It's not like we can't focus on both IA and AI at the same time.

I think OP want to say that AI is a mean, whereas IA is an end. The real goal of AI is IA.

Also I think that aiming for IA will provide small benefits in the short term but a lot of benefit in the long term taking into consideration the slow pace of IA's innovations emergence like it's the case of GUIs (as explained in the article).

Whereas AI doesn't provide benefits in the short term at all if not applied to IA. From my AI enthusiast understanding, what happens is that instead of applying the discoveries of narrow AI, researcher are jumping into AGI which doesn't help to spread IA innovations and lower the chance of emergence of new discoveries not necessarily related to the field of IA or AI.

That's how I understand that aiming for IA provides more overall benefits.

Re: IA or AI?

#18

Post by dsr_ »

The IA advance which is most obvious to me (yet somehow not yet a reality) is the nomenclator.

In Rome, a nomenclator was a slave who remembered people's names for you, and as they approached would whisper to you that this is Gaius Tullius Castor, his wife is Flaminia, his eldest boy is Marcus, and he owns beanfields.

A Google Glass camera on your eyeglasses and a speaker in your ear, hooked up to Facebook's face recognition and social web, can tell you a quick precis of who you see across the room before they get to you. Add a touch sensor in your pocket or on a ring for unobtrusive control, and a mic to pick up your annotations or commands, and you've got a product that should be a major hit by the second generation.

Re: IA or AI?

#19

Post by Practicality »

barteklev wrote: post #15
Practicality wrote: post #7

It seems obvious to me that IA is where the tremendous benefits to society occur. Imagine a world where everyone has the equivalent of a genius IQ today. A lot of problems suddenly disappear. AI, on the other hand, while very useful, doesn't change people. And frankly, most problems we have are because people lack understanding. I don't know about you, but I don't actually want to replace mankind with something else,…

I would rethink statement, that AI doesn't change people. In my opinion it does it indirectly. AFAIK it's well documented fact that Google has changed the way our brains work. Would it be possible if Google had no AI? I ask, don't realy know. How about computer games? I daresay that experience created with them can be beneficial to inteligence. Interaction with AI in games happen to be interesting to take a look at.…

Fair enough. I think that we need both. Just that I believe that we benefit more from the IA than the AI. The AI is the tool that gets us there. We need AI, but it's not enough.

Re: IA or AI?

#20

Post by smegger001 »

rntz wrote: post #10
otoburb wrote: post #5

"[...] good notation is worth a whopping increment in IQ points. Except that the really good ones allow one to have thoughts that are impossible without." I posit this post tangentially explains the nagging feeling that many parents[1] experience when their children struggle with mathematics. The benefits of basic language literacy are clear, but follow-on analogies such as the above emphasize a point of view conclud…

> an inability to attain mathematical fluency excludes the next generation from any implied augmented intelligence benefits. Well, only in some ways. I don't have to understand how a refrigerator works in order to use it. Improvements in quality of life produced by use of augmented intelligence ought to be accessible even to those without it.

The problem only happens when no one bothers to learn how something works. Look at all of those big iron systems out there that few people know how to program, there is reason Cobol and Fortran programmers still make good money.

Oh and refrigeration is simple, it is just an application of the ideal gas law PV=nRT, and a pump. Refrigerant is compressed then cooled through use of a heat-sink then pumped into the refrigerator and allowed to expand where the refrigerant absorbs thermal energy and is pumped out and repeated.

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