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A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

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Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#11

Post by ZenoArrow »

gozo wrote: post #9

I'm always split when reading stories like this. On the one hand, I really feel for the person and appreciate her sharing. Problems like these rarely consider the practicality of the situation and shouldn't be taken lightly. On the other, I know there are kids out there who never got to go to a good school, always had problems at home and never got to feel the joy of learning. They can't write this kind of story and…

Whilst it's true that we shouldn't overlook the experience of others, I believe if we try to look at the issues all at once we'll not get anywhere (analysis paralysis) or will generalise too much and miss the finer details.

You touched on one of the key points for me when you said "never got to feel the joy of learning". Perhaps that's the key problem in this case too, as the author didn't seem to have discovered the joy of learning, but discovered the joy of achieving, and the price you pay when you don't have other joys to balance you out.

I can't wait for a time when we lose our obsession with work ethic. Not that working at something you want is automatically bad, far from it, but it's not the only way to enjoy life. One day I hope we can see that being a slacker can be a noble profession.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#12

Post by ZenoArrow »

jensen123 wrote: post #10

In Japan they have this phenomenom called hikikomori - young people shutting themselves off from the world, kinda like the person in the article did for a while, until his parents threatened to cut him off. I'm wondering why we don't have much of this hikikomori phenomenom in the West - is it simply because Western parents don't tolerate it?

I would suggest that we do have it in the West. It's not unknown to know people who live at their family home well into their 20s, don't work, don't go out much, spend their time getting stoned, watching TV, surfing the web, and playing computer games.

The only major differences between the hikikomori and the equivalent Western stereotype is that food isn't brought to the room, and this leads to some limited social interactions with those around them.

I can understand the appeal of being a recluse, and I'd much rather someone became a recluse than topped themselves.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#14

Post by duggan »

hugh4 wrote: post #7
xrjn wrote: post #3

I feel that I'm in a fairly related situation myself. A week ago I packed my backpack, and flew out to London to start a startup. Since my parents are not really supportive of me as I'm not "studying or working" in their opinion - I'm mostly on my own. I've had some tough times recently, especially in the past week. But every time, I just look ahead and see what I can make, what I can build, what I want to achieve. I…

>It's _very_ important to avoid discouraging teenagers and young adults from going on their own path. Alternative idea: it's important to discourage teenagers and young adults from going their own path, to make sure that only those who are really prepared and committed will actually do it. Like the old Jewish tradition of telling anyone who wanted to convert "no, go away" three times before eventually letting them st…

The problem is that this is just rephrasing "survival of the fittest," a concept misappropriated from evolutionary theory into societal planning numerous times by despots, and which - to my mind - has no place in a society mindful of its incomplete information about what constitutes "fittest."

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#15

Post by cloudier »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #12
jensen123 wrote: post #10

In Japan they have this phenomenom called hikikomori - young people shutting themselves off from the world, kinda like the person in the article did for a while, until his parents threatened to cut him off. I'm wondering why we don't have much of this hikikomori phenomenom in the West - is it simply because Western parents don't tolerate it?

I would suggest that we do have it in the West. It's not unknown to know people who live at their family home well into their 20s, don't work, don't go out much, spend their time getting stoned, watching TV, surfing the web, and playing computer games. The only major differences between the hikikomori and the equivalent Western stereotype is that food isn't brought to the room, and this leads to some limited social i…

The equivalent Western stereotype is probably the neckbeard. It's prevalent enough to have shown up in mainstream media, e.g. South Park's Make Love, Not Warcraft.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#16

Post by forgetsusername »

gozo wrote: post #9

I'm always split when reading stories like this. On the one hand, I really feel for the person and appreciate her sharing. Problems like these rarely consider the practicality of the situation and shouldn't be taken lightly. On the other, I know there are kids out there who never got to go to a good school, always had problems at home and never got to feel the joy of learning. They can't write this kind of story and…

>I'm always split when reading stories like this.

I agree. On one hand, as someone who deals with minor bouts of depression, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It sucks.

On the other, I think part of the problem are these bizarre expectations to have everything "figured out" at such a young age. The author writes about a series of what appear to be catastrophic, depression inducing academic and career oriented decisions, culminating in landing a dream job. All by age 23 or so?

It's all about academics, careers, potential employers, grades, GPA, admissions, money, prestige. Need to find my place, need to find my place. Then you find out it's not as fulfilling as you'd imagined. Perhaps it comes with the mentality of being an "overachiever". How about stopping to smell the flowers sometime, and realize you're a kid with a lot of life left to live, full of all kinds of trials and tribulations?

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#17

Post by roghummal »

cloudier wrote: post #15
ZenoArrow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest that we do have it in the West. It's not unknown to know people who live at their family home well into their 20s, don't work, don't go out much, spend their time getting stoned, watching TV, surfing the web, and playing computer games. The only major differences between the hikikomori and the equivalent Western stereotype is that food isn't brought to the room, and this leads to some limited social i…

The equivalent Western stereotype is probably the neckbeard. It's prevalent enough to have shown up in mainstream media, e.g. South Park's Make Love, Not Warcraft.

What do you call a female neckbeard, then?

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#18

Post by mlamat »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #12
jensen123 wrote: post #10

In Japan they have this phenomenom called hikikomori - young people shutting themselves off from the world, kinda like the person in the article did for a while, until his parents threatened to cut him off. I'm wondering why we don't have much of this hikikomori phenomenom in the West - is it simply because Western parents don't tolerate it?

I would suggest that we do have it in the West. It's not unknown to know people who live at their family home well into their 20s, don't work, don't go out much, spend their time getting stoned, watching TV, surfing the web, and playing computer games. The only major differences between the hikikomori and the equivalent Western stereotype is that food isn't brought to the room, and this leads to some limited social i…

I think it's mainly a jobs problem. People are going to freak out in a few years when they will find out how many people have become passive by the recession of 2008, especially in the periphery countries of the EU, where unemployment is high.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#19

Post by forthefuture »

So I'm a similar situation except I'm hopelessly introverted. The idea of a bootcamp seems good to my parents, but to me it's just another word for school. At this point it would be easier to get a computer science degree than to do a bootcamp because doing work in groups is the first thing I check for on a syllabus before I drop a class.

It sure looks good though, pay $15,000 for a 97% chance at getting a job. I just don't want to pay someone to teach me something I already know just to get a job. That's why I dropped out of college.

Re: A Culture Against Dropouts, Deviants and Troubled Young Adults

#20

Post by roghummal »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #11
gozo wrote: post #9

I'm always split when reading stories like this. On the one hand, I really feel for the person and appreciate her sharing. Problems like these rarely consider the practicality of the situation and shouldn't be taken lightly. On the other, I know there are kids out there who never got to go to a good school, always had problems at home and never got to feel the joy of learning. They can't write this kind of story and…

Whilst it's true that we shouldn't overlook the experience of others, I believe if we try to look at the issues all at once we'll not get anywhere (analysis paralysis) or will generalise too much and miss the finer details. You touched on one of the key points for me when you said "never got to feel the joy of learning". Perhaps that's the key problem in this case too, as the author didn't seem to have discovered the…

>Not that working at something you want is automatically bad, far from it, but it's not the only way to enjoy life. One day I hope we can see that being a slacker can be a noble profession.

I have some documentation you should read: http://www.subgenius.com/pam1/pamphlet.html

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