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Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

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Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#11

Post by irl_zebra »

danmaz74 wrote: post #4
jordigh wrote: post #3

Amongst those four arguments, I again don't see mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10241380 I don't want ads because I don't want to be manipulated into buying things I don't need. I especially don't want to allow this manipulation while I'm in the middle of something else. Even if ads were presented with speed, privacy, and safety, I still don't want them.

Fair enough. So, you just have to not use websites that live off ads.

I don't think it's up to the poster to change behavior to make up for a website's poor business model.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#12

Post by jonknee »

callesgg wrote: post #9

I would gladly pay a small fee to not have to see adds. The issue is how to solve that, how could i pay that fee in a simple manner where the cash only goes to the sites that i use.

Google (of all companies) actually has a program for this, but like you'd imagine you still need be OK with some tracking (otherwise your payments wouldn't go to the sites you visit!).

https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/

I haven't implemented it on my site, but Google keeps asking me to.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#13

Post by greggman »

icebraining wrote: post #10
danmaz74 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. So, you just have to not use websites that live off ads.

Why does (s)he have to do that? Because the video makers don't want you to watch it without seeing the ads is not a sufficient reason. Content producers just have to accept the fact that they don't get to control how people see their stuff once they put it out there, just like TV producers didn't get to prevent you from flipping channels during an ad break. If you disagree, as the copyright holder of my posts, I revo…

Why isn't it a sufficient reason? If they say "don't watch my video unless you pay $5" are you okay with that or do you just think whatever they made you're entitled to it, you never have to give what they ask in return? Isn't it up to them to decide what they want to charge you (pay $$, watch this ad, etc.) and for you to decide not to watch if you don't want to pay whatever they are asking?

How is this any different than say GPL in that you can either pay the price "make your modified version GPL too" or you can not modify the software. Do you also think that's not for them to decide and that you should just use and modify the software anyway?

PS: please don't turn this into a thread about the minutia of the GPL. That's not the point. The point is whether or not the same concept that lets a creator set a software license and choose the terms, whether that concept also applies to other creations, videos, books, movies, games, magazines, articles, etc..

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#14

Post by timmytokyo »

jordigh wrote: post #3

Amongst those four arguments, I again don't see mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10241380 I don't want ads because I don't want to be manipulated into buying things I don't need. I especially don't want to allow this manipulation while I'm in the middle of something else. Even if ads were presented with speed, privacy, and safety, I still don't want them.

I'm reminded of a story the director Milos Forman told about his film Amadeus, which was made before the fall of the Berlin Wall. In deciding where to shoot the film, he chose Czechoslovakia because there was simply too much signage and too many visible advertisements plastered around Austria, which otherwise would have been the more historically appropriate filming location. It kind of illustrates how pervasive advertising is in our daily lives. I'm just glad we have the ability to do something about it on the Internet.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#15

Post by aylons »

callesgg wrote: post #9

I would gladly pay a small fee to not have to see adds. The issue is how to solve that, how could i pay that fee in a simple manner where the cash only goes to the sites that i use.

Google has a proposal for this: Google Contributor [1]. Of course, only works for Google ads, but this is a substantial portion of the web.

However, I don't like the current proposition: you pay for seeing less ads, but there's no tier guaranteeing no ads. Even if they guarantee 99% less ads, I still wouldn't sign for it.

Paying for seeing less ads does not change the incentives for tracking and targeting, and may even worsen them: surely Google will start by cutting the less targeted ads. The more I cut the ads, the more targeted the remaining ads will be, and stronger will be the incentive to track me.

Only by a policy of no ads and no other revenue stream besides my money would avoid the perverse incentives that are in place for tracking - and trying to change - my behavior.

Of course, Google Contributor would still have to track the sites I visit, so I wouldn't be able to prevent tracking with a technical tool if I signed for it. This adds even more to the argument that Contributor is only an option if no ads are allowed, so that he incentives for targeting and analysis are now removed.

[1]https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#16

Post by rodion_89 »

greggman wrote: post #13
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does (s)he have to do that? Because the video makers don't want you to watch it without seeing the ads is not a sufficient reason. Content producers just have to accept the fact that they don't get to control how people see their stuff once they put it out there, just like TV producers didn't get to prevent you from flipping channels during an ad break. If you disagree, as the copyright holder of my posts, I revo…

Why isn't it a sufficient reason? If they say "don't watch my video unless you pay $5" are you okay with that or do you just think whatever they made you're entitled to it, you never have to give what they ask in return? Isn't it up to them to decide what they want to charge you (pay $$, watch this ad, etc.) and for you to decide not to watch if you don't want to pay whatever they are asking? How is this any differen…

> "don't watch my video unless you pay $5"

This is an explicit agreement between the customer and content provider. YouTube, Google search, etc don't have any explicit agreement with users in this regard -- the ads just show up.

The TOS says it, your understanding of their business model conveys it, but at the end of the day they just shove the ads in there without directly claiming to their customers, "you must see ads and be tracked to get free content".

I think usage would change dramatically if they actually claimed this when a user first uses their service.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#17

Post by eva1984 »

The war of ad-blockers and anti-ad-blockers will be ugly, I suppose.

Say, if Youtube is going to enforce anti-ad-blocking across the site, and I believe the could do that-their Chinese copycat, Youku, has already done this long time ago, will you give up watching? That might be a hard question to answer.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#18

Post by sandworm101 »

IP addresses can be geolocated. Big deal. This article seems a little out of date when it comes to what an IP address means for home users. (For mobile users, there are far easier means of tracking than via IP address.)

For instance.... "One important thing to note is that most consumers probably have a “dynamic ip address” meaning that your internet service provider probably rotates this ip address ever 24-48 hours. Your internet service provider usually charges more money for static ip addresses which is where you keep the same ip forever."

Really? Mine hasn't changes in over a year. My ISP could change it, but absent any reason to do so they don't bother. Once upon a time they would assign new IPs when boxes turned off and on, but security measures these days mean neighbourhoods are assigned small pools of IPs. Turn off and on and you will more often than not be assigned the same IP. Besides, nobody turns off cable/DSL modems anymore anyway. Truly dynamic IP's disappeared with dialup.

And... "So each and every web request I make to any website, can find out my city, state, zip code, internet service provider, time zone, average city income, average population, and if I’m residential."

Nope. Mine is always wrong. All the geolocation services place my IP in the wrong city. That's because my area is served by boxes one town over. So all the info gathered via my IP address beyond which state/province I'm in would be incorrect. These online IP databases are not the same as actually phoning an IP for a street address. They are at best a good guess.

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#19

Post by [deleted] »

aylons wrote: post #15
callesgg wrote: post #9

I would gladly pay a small fee to not have to see adds. The issue is how to solve that, how could i pay that fee in a simple manner where the cash only goes to the sites that i use.

Google has a proposal for this: Google Contributor [1]. Of course, only works for Google ads, but this is a substantial portion of the web. However, I don't like the current proposition: you pay for seeing less ads, but there's no tier guaranteeing no ads. Even if they guarantee 99% less ads, I still wouldn't sign for it. Paying for seeing less ads does not change the incentives for tracking and targeting, and may ev…

[deleted]

Re: Ad Blocking, Ad Networks, and Your IP Address

#20

Post by samsnelling »

jordigh wrote: post #3

Amongst those four arguments, I again don't see mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10241380 I don't want ads because I don't want to be manipulated into buying things I don't need. I especially don't want to allow this manipulation while I'm in the middle of something else. Even if ads were presented with speed, privacy, and safety, I still don't want them.

Thanks for this, I actually read your comment the other day, and it slipped my mind as I wrote it this morning. I've added an edited section about manipulation, with a link to this comment.
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