"Totally Honest" "(a lie, I added $14k to the original offer)" "(a lie, I added $20k to my current salary)"
That's the joke.
Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
11–20 of 137 posts
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#12Yep, this is what you have to do. I know a guy, smart developer, not even a college graduate who had dropped out of community college, who clawed his way from 60k to 150 in less than 6 years using similar tactics. You need a decent safety net, brass balls, and willingness to actually walk away of it doesn't go your way.
No doubt. I actually stepped away, because the upward trajectory, means your performance has to match the pay. As said before in the thread, asking OVER the top - simply means HR finds your replacement faster. Appeasement is what started Hitler's demise. Those who do not learn from the past, will repeat the failures in the future. However, its like a skill of knowing the timing of things - how I got this far, myself.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#13This all seems pretty straightforward to me, though I don't pull the "I'm leaving" tactic, I just leave. Overall I agree, engineers are too timid about this and you have to grow some balls.
It would be worth expounding a bit on the manager who was a skilled negotiator. What did that person do, how did you end up being glad with just an offer? I've read a lot about this subject but maybe others have not.
Is this in the Bay Area? (Edit: guessing Boston or that region based on the New England college)
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#14Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
Welcome to the 2010s, where credit unions now run additional services for employers and HR departments. My company regularly uses The Work Number from Experian.
Interesting. I've always suspected something like this existed and have argued with people against lying about salary history on the assumption that it does. This is the first confirmation I've seen. Thanks!
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#15Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
I've gotten the same advice from multiple sources. You don't have to lie to say what salary you're looking for. You also don't have to give your current salary.
In the information age, you better be extra careful about bluffing because it's easier every day to call those bluffs.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#16Two things: I went back to my original employer and said I had a new job offer for $70k, and I didn't want to negotiate, I just wanted their final, last ditch offer That's an incredibly awesome way to have a huge target painted on your back. A lot of employers get really pissed at this tactic but won't say so to your face. They will gladly give you that new salary for just enough time to get a (cheaper) replacement o…
Welcome to the 2010s, where credit unions now run additional services for employers and HR departments. My company regularly uses The Work Number from Experian. Interesting. I've always suspected something like this existed and have argued with people against lying about salary history on the assumption that it does. This is the first confirmation I've seen. Thanks!
But, in this case, he wasn't lying about his salary history. He was inflating (lying about) a competing offer (that he had no intention of taking). That's a lot harder to disprove...
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#17"Totally Honest" "(a lie, I added $14k to the original offer)" "(a lie, I added $20k to my current salary)"
He might be being totally honest with us. Or, he might not...
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#18This is by far the best talk I've ever seen on the topic "Negotiations for Hackers"
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#19I would recommend a small variation of this technique in order to maintain good working relationships with your manager/employer. Start with a conversation explaining why you believe you should be better compensated, highlighting the value you add to the company, rarity of your skills, market rates, etc. If the request is rejected, or the increase offered is inadequate, then find an offer at another employer and use…
Yes, the key is to never make ultimatums, as that creates too much conflict.
Just say you're "unhappy". Keep it vague. See what they do. It's tough finding good people in this market.
Re: Totally Honest Software Engineering Negotiations
#20Yep, this is what you have to do. I know a guy, smart developer, not even a college graduate who had dropped out of community college, who clawed his way from 60k to 150 in less than 6 years using similar tactics. You need a decent safety net, brass balls, and willingness to actually walk away of it doesn't go your way.
No doubt. I actually stepped away, because the upward trajectory, means your performance has to match the pay. As said before in the thread, asking OVER the top - simply means HR finds your replacement faster. Appeasement is what started Hitler's demise. Those who do not learn from the past, will repeat the failures in the future. However, its like a skill of knowing the timing of things - how I got this far, myself.
> Appeasement is what started Hitler's demise.
Either you need more knowledge of history, or more caffeine this morning.