A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future • Hacker News Board

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#11

Post by AndrewKemendo » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 6:55 PM UTC

reasonattlm wrote: post #4

Some reading material for those interesting in the current state of cryonics development and research, starting with an overview and moving on. Modern cryopreservation aims for vitrification, not freezing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics http://alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm http://www.brainpreservation.org/competitors/ The evidence assembled to date provides a reasonable expectation that the fine structure of the b…

Not very satisfying from the continuity identity perspective; a copy of you is not you.

Neither are you, you you from yesterday or the day before - conscious continuity is illusory. How do you know that your body isn't replaced with a new copy each night (thought experiment)?

restoration of the original tissues...Advanced molecular nanotechnology and complete control over cellular biology

You run into a Ship of Theseus problem with this approach, which gets back to your original qualia problem.

The biological body is not made to last - you'll need to be converted to something more durable if you want an unbroken conscious experience longer than ~100 years.

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#12

Post by Old_Thrashbarg » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:00 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #2

Why are we so scared of death, to be nothing. Why do we have to cling on to someone's memories,is it because it gives some sense of security? It is just bizarre to reduce the beauty of life to some some little affair of holding on to someone's memories. Death is as beautiful as birth. We should break past the ridiculous taboos surrounding death and discuss it openly as to what it means to die. Edit: Jiddu K on death,…

Your response is what Aubrey de Grey calls the pro-aging trance. And he offers a lot of possible explanations about the psychology behind why many people pretend death is a good thing.

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#13

Post by grondilu » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:00 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #3

dominotw wrote: post #2

Why are we so scared of death, to be nothing. Why do we have to cling on to someone's memories,is it because it gives some sense of security? It is just bizarre to reduce the beauty of life to some some little affair of holding on to someone's memories. Death is as beautiful as birth. We should break past the ridiculous taboos surrounding death and discuss it openly as to what it means to die. Edit: Jiddu K on death,…

Once you're dead you'll miss out on all the cool stuff that's happening. It's bad enough we missed out on all the stuff that happened before we died.

You don't miss anything because you don't exist anymore.

Missing things is considered a bad thing when you can experience the frustration of not being able to do things you would like to do. But if you don't exist, you can not experience this frustration, thus not being able to do stuff does not mean anything to you because nothing does.

The only frustration you can feel is the idea that in the future you won't be able to do stuff that you would like to do now while you're alive. So you're suffering from an idea. It's all in your head.

Fear of death is a self-inflicted pain. Best attitude towards death is not to think about it.

Like in this movie:

    - A hundred years from now there won't be one
      sad f.ck to look at any of this. What keeps you going?
    - You know what it is, Theo?  I just don't think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEFgX-uFZc

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#14

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #2

Why are we so scared of death, to be nothing. Why do we have to cling on to someone's memories,is it because it gives some sense of security? It is just bizarre to reduce the beauty of life to some some little affair of holding on to someone's memories. Death is as beautiful as birth. We should break past the ridiculous taboos surrounding death and discuss it openly as to what it means to die. Edit: Jiddu K on death,…

[deleted]

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#15

Post by analog31 » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:04 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

reasonattlm wrote: post #4

Some reading material for those interesting in the current state of cryonics development and research, starting with an overview and moving on. Modern cryopreservation aims for vitrification, not freezing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics http://alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm http://www.brainpreservation.org/competitors/ The evidence assembled to date provides a reasonable expectation that the fine structure of the b…

Not very satisfying from the continuity identity perspective; a copy of you is not you. Neither are you, you you from yesterday or the day before - conscious continuity is illusory. How do you know that your body isn't replaced with a new copy each night (thought experiment)? restoration of the original tissues...Advanced molecular nanotechnology and complete control over cellular biology You run into a Ship of These…

Neither are you, you you from yesterday or the day before - conscious continuity is illusory. How do you know that your body isn't replaced with a new copy each night (thought experiment)?

Because the workmanship keeps getting worse and worse. ;-)

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#16

Post by melling » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:09 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #13

pekk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you're dead you'll miss out on all the cool stuff that's happening. It's bad enough we missed out on all the stuff that happened before we died.

You don't miss anything because you don't exist anymore. Missing things is considered a bad thing when you can experience the frustration of not being able to do things you would like to do. But if you don't exist, you can not experience this frustration, thus not being able to do stuff does not mean anything to you because nothing does. The only frustration you can feel is the idea that in the future you won't be ab…

Trying to be clever we are. "miss out" or "miss" has a couple of definitions. You are "missing" the point.

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#17

Post by codecamper » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:09 PM UTC

ThomasBombadil wrote: post #9

Consider the idea that this is a vector into the idea of machines being possibly equally important, or considered even more important than living humans, based on their capacity to accurately represent the continued presence of deceased humans. That a machine is permitted to occupy and consume resources, that might otherwise be used by actual living people who are also trying to live meaningful lives. Which one wins?

no worries. The human emulator uses just 1% of a 2050 EC2 mini compute instance.

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#18

Post by saint_fiasco » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #13

pekk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you're dead you'll miss out on all the cool stuff that's happening. It's bad enough we missed out on all the stuff that happened before we died.

You don't miss anything because you don't exist anymore. Missing things is considered a bad thing when you can experience the frustration of not being able to do things you would like to do. But if you don't exist, you can not experience this frustration, thus not being able to do stuff does not mean anything to you because nothing does. The only frustration you can feel is the idea that in the future you won't be ab…

There is a difference between missing out on things and feeling sad because you miss out on things.

Dying protects you from feeling sad about missing things, but you are still missing out on things.

If you think only the feeling matters and not the missing out itself, you might as well spend the rest of your life on pleasure-inducing drugs.

Most people care about things other than their own subjective experience.

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#19

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #13

pekk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you're dead you'll miss out on all the cool stuff that's happening. It's bad enough we missed out on all the stuff that happened before we died.

You don't miss anything because you don't exist anymore. Missing things is considered a bad thing when you can experience the frustration of not being able to do things you would like to do. But if you don't exist, you can not experience this frustration, thus not being able to do stuff does not mean anything to you because nothing does. The only frustration you can feel is the idea that in the future you won't be ab…

[deleted]

Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future

#20

Post by orangecat » Sat, Sep 12, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

grondilu wrote: post #13

pekk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you're dead you'll miss out on all the cool stuff that's happening. It's bad enough we missed out on all the stuff that happened before we died.

You don't miss anything because you don't exist anymore. Missing things is considered a bad thing when you can experience the frustration of not being able to do things you would like to do. But if you don't exist, you can not experience this frustration, thus not being able to do stuff does not mean anything to you because nothing does. The only frustration you can feel is the idea that in the future you won't be ab…

Best attitude towards death is not to think about it.

That may have been the best attitude in previous centuries. But now we're getting to the point where we might actually be able to do something about it, and holding on to that attitude may result in the unnecessary annihilation of billions of sentient beings.