Is there any incentive to host nodes?
yes. https://ipfs.io/ has more info, in particular, the linked pdf.
Also check out filecoin, which as I understand uses hosting data as a proof-of-work for cryptocurrency.
Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
11–20 of 249 posts
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#12So is this primarily for static websites? I don't see dynamic websites going too well with this system. Edit: If someone like GitHub supported this for GitHub pages it would be a great step forward for this as well.
How dynamic? Resources can be updated to point to new immutable objects. For instance, as an operator of a website, I can sign the resource `/comments/10189265.json` as referencing an object with a particular hash, and then when there are additional comments, change the object it references. How fast things like this can update are dependent on the implementation, which I haven't read.
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#13So is this primarily for static websites? I don't see dynamic websites going too well with this system. Edit: If someone like GitHub supported this for GitHub pages it would be a great step forward for this as well.
> So is this primarily for static websites?
More work would be needed here perhaps. But decentralized apps should happen one day. As someone without real technical knowledge in security and decentralized platforms, I'd love to hear from some on HN where we really stand on decentralized apps and security.
- Public data. Distributing, searching and querying is not a problem.
- Restricted data. You'd be distributing encrypted data to peers. Now, if we have a way to send an encrypted query to the peer and have it run on encrypted data without the peer being able to understand the query or the data, we'd be set perhaps.
- Obviously this would need application architectures to change. But that's solvable.
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#14I'm very excited to see what happens with IPFS. The article talks about replacing HTTP however, and this is definitely a tricky task.
Someone in this thread already asked one of my questions (So is this primarily for static websites?) but my second question is: So is this primarily for personal websites?
I'm having a hard time finding a good way for Facebook, for example, to monetize their website. Targeting ads go out the window with mostly static content. Even more so though, what about Netflix? How is DRM done? How do you make sure only the correct users can access your objects?
edit: Also, doesn't a "permanent web" have an inevitably fatal flaw that you can't free space?
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#15Reading this felt kind of like the first time I read a writeup on Bitcoin. There's the same sense of throwing out some old, formerly immutable rules here, the excitement of something that's going to test some boundaries and inevitably clash with some authority (how can you, for instance, comply with the EU's "right to be forgotten" when that information is scattered into a redundant mesh?). Interesting times ahead fo…
Agree. What we really need is for browser vendors to get together, bring in the tremendous financial and technical resources they have, and get a decentralized protocol formalized and supported across browsers. It may take years, but it needs to be done.
That would change the internet, and the world.
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#16So is this primarily for static websites? I don't see dynamic websites going too well with this system. Edit: If someone like GitHub supported this for GitHub pages it would be a great step forward for this as well.
> So is this primarily for static websites? More work would be needed here perhaps. But decentralized apps should happen one day. As someone without real technical knowledge in security and decentralized platforms, I'd love to hear from some on HN where we really stand on decentralized apps and security. - Public data. Distributing, searching and querying is not a problem. - Restricted data. You'd be distributing enc…
> Now, if we have a way to send an encrypted query to the peer and have it run on encrypted data without the peer being able to understand the query or the data, we'd be set perhaps.
Is that possible? It doesn't seem to be "N versus NP" but it seems similar. How can a computer find a correct answer to a question it doesn't know?
I suppose you could send off small units of processing across many nodes, such that none of them knows the full result set...
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#17So is this primarily for static websites? I don't see dynamic websites going too well with this system. Edit: If someone like GitHub supported this for GitHub pages it would be a great step forward for this as well.
IPFS is designed with mutability in mind-- think of it like git branches which advance to newer versions. (though you can indeed get rid of version history in that pointer if you want). So, the short answer is "yes, IPFS will work with mutable content just fine", though _how_ the mutability works is a harder, deeper question.
I think the best sources will be the paper, the talks on the website, and the FAQ:
- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmR7GSQM93Cx5eAg6a6yRzNde1FQv7uL6X1o4k7... - https://ipfs.io/ - https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#18Awesome writeup! Sure, it's easier to setup your own web presence with "the cloud" today than it used to be, but this only further centralizes control of content to the big cloud providers. Not to mention the cost of bandwidth when serving content via HTTP. Sure, you can distribute your content via BitTorrent, but what kind of user experience is that? Can my grandma use it? Probably not. I hope IPFS sees further adop…
Thanks! Help us make it :) -- https://github.com/ipfs/
and, you'll love what we have coming. Soon, you won't need to install ipfs at all :D
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#19Reading this felt kind of like the first time I read a writeup on Bitcoin. There's the same sense of throwing out some old, formerly immutable rules here, the excitement of something that's going to test some boundaries and inevitably clash with some authority (how can you, for instance, comply with the EU's "right to be forgotten" when that information is scattered into a redundant mesh?). Interesting times ahead fo…
Thanks for the kind words. :) Come join us! https://github.com/ipfs/
Re: Neocities is implementing IPFS – distributed, permanent web
#20Reading this felt kind of like the first time I read a writeup on Bitcoin. There's the same sense of throwing out some old, formerly immutable rules here, the excitement of something that's going to test some boundaries and inevitably clash with some authority (how can you, for instance, comply with the EU's "right to be forgotten" when that information is scattered into a redundant mesh?). Interesting times ahead fo…
Agree. What we really need is for browser vendors to get together, bring in the tremendous financial and technical resources they have, and get a decentralized protocol formalized and supported across browsers. It may take years, but it needs to be done. That would change the internet, and the world.
Two pieces of (coming soon) good news:
- very soon, you wont need to install anything to use IPFS. it will "just work" with js on today's browsers.
- for best perf, yes, we need browser implementations. and... those have begun :)