The Timeless Way of Building (1979) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#11

Post by andyjohnson0 » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 8:54 PM UTC

falsedan wrote: post #7

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #2

Also on Archive.org is Alexander's A Pattern Language [1]. Although that book is also about the architecture of buildings, it inspired the idea of software design patterns [2]. [1] https://archive.org/details/APatternLanguage [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Histor...

It also influenced Steward Brand's HOW BUILDINGS LEARN: What Happens After They’re Built . The BBC's adaptation includes some interview with Alexander [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/ZSaWdp833YM?t=12m57s

An excellent book that I'd highly recommend. I have a copy on a bookshelf not far from where I'm sat, and your mention of it has prompted me to pull it out to dip-into later. Thanks!

And Stewart Brand is one of my intellectual heroes.

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#12

Post by akkartik » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 9:02 PM UTC

To all the Christopher Alexander recommendations I'll add Notes on the Synthesis of Form. It's his best book in my not-so-humble opinion, and it's been under-rated ever since Richard Gabriel called it 'juvenalia': https://www.dreamsongs.com/Essays.html

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#13

Post by pja » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

For those who are unclear on the significance of this, Christopher Alexander’s works were foundational to the pattern movement in software architecture & design.

There are some links on Ward Cunningham’s software patterns wiki:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ChristopherAlexander

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#14

Post by jalfresi » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

akkartik wrote: post #12

To all the Christopher Alexander recommendations I'll add Notes on the Synthesis of Form . It's his best book in my not-so-humble opinion, and it's been under-rated ever since Richard Gabriel called it 'juvenalia': https://www.dreamsongs.com/Essays.html

'Notes..' is my all time favourite book. I have a 10 year old, well worn, note riddled copy that I take with me on every holiday :)

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#15

Post by carapace » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 10:35 PM UTC

This site is what made me realize that minimal unit for planning had to be at least "Neighborhood"...

http://www.livingneighborhoods.org/

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#16

Post by applecore » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 10:46 PM UTC

Christopher Alexander's A City is Not a Tree is another great essay on systems thinking.

http://www.bp.ntu.edu.tw/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/06-Alexa...

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#17

Post by ojbyrne » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 11:13 PM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #2

Also on Archive.org is Alexander's A Pattern Language [1]. Although that book is also about the architecture of buildings, it inspired the idea of software design patterns [2]. [1] https://archive.org/details/APatternLanguage [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Histor...

My understanding is that both books influenced software design patterns (and the wikipedia article is unclear on that). This book is really a continuation of the ideas in A Pattern Language.

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#18

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 5:35 AM UTC

skilesare wrote: post #3

His nature of order is an amazing read as well: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&camp=... Reading this besides something like Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a good exercise in seeing the world a little more clearly.

Why is it like 80$? This isn't college...

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#19

Post by mironathetin » Fri, Sep 04, 2015, 9:43 AM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #2

Also on Archive.org is Alexander's A Pattern Language [1]. Although that book is also about the architecture of buildings, it inspired the idea of software design patterns [2]. [1] https://archive.org/details/APatternLanguage [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Histor...

A Pattern Language is a gorgeous book. We are currently redesigning our home, and this is worth its weight in gold.

I always had the notion though, the software pattern way was a misinterpretation of Alexanders ideas. Alexander doesn't stop to emphasize that a pattern can (and should) have an uncountable number of slightly different implementations, as the special situation requests. He is outspokenly against reusing an implementation without adequate modification for the situation in architectural applications.

I always understood the highest goal in software engineering is to write code that can be reused without modification. I never could agree that this is a good idea for the users of software. It is only more economical to build. Just what Alexander defines as the most evil thing ever, because in architecture this leads to faceless homes.

The idea to reuse implementations of patterns is one that in another context delivers us cars that are more or less all VW Golf (Rabbit) underneath.

Re: The Timeless Way of Building (1979)

#20

Post by theoh » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:44 PM UTC

akkartik wrote: post #12

To all the Christopher Alexander recommendations I'll add Notes on the Synthesis of Form . It's his best book in my not-so-humble opinion, and it's been under-rated ever since Richard Gabriel called it 'juvenalia': https://www.dreamsongs.com/Essays.html

Gabriel misspelt "juvenilia", but it's an odd criticism anyway, since Alexander seems to have got progressively more cranky and messianic as he got older. He is a complete outsider in the architecture world, which is actually quite tolerant of small-scale, community-based building (see Walter Segal)