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OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

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Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#11

Post by wtallis »

lelandbatey wrote: post #8

Alright, after searching on this a little bit more, it seems that the FCC is not prohibiting the installation of software like OpenWRT or DD-WRT, but are instead mandating that there is software for the radios only that ensures they operate in the manner they are certified for. There is much more information in the HN comments from a previous time where this was discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9959088

Given appropriately designed radio hardware, this would be a non-issue. But given the radios that are on the market right now, this could be a very bad thing in the short term for the most open products that are the only affordable platforms for further R&D of Linux-based wireless router software. Anything that would take ath9k hardware off the market before an equally-open successor is available would be more damaging than any interference these products are capable of producing.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#12

Post by mindslight »

Better off just building your own router. The high brow option is an embedded motherboard and minipcie wifi card. If the hardware is powerful enough to MASQ gigabit, it won't be obsolete for a decade. And you can upgrade wireless standards with a new card. The only reason there's such an upgrade cycle for consumer routers is that they're built shoddily and with the slowest CPU possible.

And as much as I appreciate spectrum partitioning, we really need to get the major wifi chipsets completely reverse engineered so we can blow away this ambiguous spectre of "unauthorized" modifications and turn them into something normal. Randos stomping on ch12-15 isn't an actual problem - but that widespread rulebreaking coupled with the unknown of what further mods could do is scary to regulators. Destroy that unknown.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#13

Post by dsr_ »

mindslight wrote: post #12

Better off just building your own router. The high brow option is an embedded motherboard and minipcie wifi card. If the hardware is powerful enough to MASQ gigabit, it won't be obsolete for a decade. And you can upgrade wireless standards with a new card. The only reason there's such an upgrade cycle for consumer routers is that they're built shoddily and with the slowest CPU possible. And as much as I appreciate sp…

If that's the highbrow option, what's a mini-ITX motherboard with an AMD 5350, 4GB RAM, an SSD and an Intel 4-port gig-e card plus the onboard gig-e?

Scout NewEgg for combos -- you too can run a fully supported OS on x86-64 instruction sets with familiar hardware, but at a low cost of both purchase and power.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#14

Post by dingaling »

cordite wrote: post #5
kefka wrote: post #3

This makes a great reason to buy Chinese equipment. Do that, it might be substandard, but you preserve your freedom.

Unless of course their equivalent of the NSA doesn't install something that runs next to the firmware independently. > http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608141/internet-privacy/sn...

At this point in history I fear less the Chinese government intercepting my data than I do my own ( UK )...

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#16

Post by mindslight »

dsr_ wrote: post #13
mindslight wrote: post #12

Better off just building your own router. The high brow option is an embedded motherboard and minipcie wifi card. If the hardware is powerful enough to MASQ gigabit, it won't be obsolete for a decade. And you can upgrade wireless standards with a new card. The only reason there's such an upgrade cycle for consumer routers is that they're built shoddily and with the slowest CPU possible. And as much as I appreciate sp…

If that's the highbrow option, what's a mini-ITX motherboard with an AMD 5350, 4GB RAM, an SSD and an Intel 4-port gig-e card plus the onboard gig-e? Scout NewEgg for combos -- you too can run a fully supported OS on x86-64 instruction sets with familiar hardware, but at a low cost of both purchase and power.

You built a server that also happens to route?

I was thinking the low brow option would be an old laptop, but that's not going to suffice for someone who wants to keep up with wireless protocols (due to the same FUD under discussion). Obviously you can fix this (coreboot or modded BIOS), but specificity and tinker factor is going way up.

It's the rise of low power general boards that really make this practical. I tried out the ECS E2100 board for a remote server, and with a silver PS it drew around 15W from the wall. It didn't work with the RAM I already had though, so I ended up going with an i5 which still only measured around 20W before I put drives in.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#17

Post by tzs »

riskable wrote: post #15

The unintended consequences of this will be millions upon millions of compromised devices all over the world with owners completely unable to solve the problem themselves.

Or the router manufacturers will properly modularize their designs so that the parts you need to replace to fix a compromise are separate from the parts that ensure that the radio stays on legal frequencies, under legal power limits, and uses legal modulation modes.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#18

Post by atmosx »

I recently bought an ADSL modem/router TP-Link 8970 (or something). The thing is awesome, except for that fact that it doesn't support OpenVPN... Supports PPTP or IPSec.

Now if only, I could install OpenWRT on it. Since OpenWRT makes ROUNDS around every custom software I've seen on low-end ADSL modem/routers makes me wonder why on earth companies don't just ship OpenWRT and get over with it?

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#19

Post by mindslight »

atmosx wrote: post #18

I recently bought an ADSL modem/router TP-Link 8970 (or something). The thing is awesome, except for that fact that it doesn't support OpenVPN... Supports PPTP or IPSec. Now if only, I could install OpenWRT on it. Since OpenWRT makes ROUNDS around every custom software I've seen on low-end ADSL modem/routers makes me wonder why on earth companies don't just ship OpenWRT and get over with it?

Their firmware is the feature they're selling you. The hardware is generic and without their wonderful firmware, they'd be competing solely on price. This is what the skinjobs think, at least.

BTW, openvpn performance sucks eggs on the processors used in consumer routers.

Re: OpenWRT vs. FCC – Forced Firmware Lockdown? [video]

#20

Post by sehugg »

tzs wrote: post #17
riskable wrote: post #15

The unintended consequences of this will be millions upon millions of compromised devices all over the world with owners completely unable to solve the problem themselves.

Or the router manufacturers will properly modularize their designs so that the parts you need to replace to fix a compromise are separate from the parts that ensure that the radio stays on legal frequencies, under legal power limits, and uses legal modulation modes.

Grid-tied power inverters are implemented this way.
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