Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Make Your Mockup in Markup

24ways.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–18 of 18 posts

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#11

Post by sjs382 »

dcurtis wrote: post #3

Wow, this is exactly how not to design. Separating layout and content is a mistake. Content should be inextricably linked to how it is presented. This is what design means; it means taking content and displaying it in an understandable and pleasing way. Every piece of content desires to be presented differently. This is exactly why CSS is such a horrible pile crap. It trains designers to separate content from present…

And here you have described the difference between print design and web design. They each have constraints.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#12

Post by rbritton »

Nearly every selector used in that mockup either: 1. Flat-out doesn't work in Internet Explorer; or 2. Requires certain hacks to align Internet Explorer's rendering with more compliant browsers. I can understand how it's much nicer to have a functional prototype, but I can't agree with it being worth the difference in the time invested.

Very, very few clients I've ever worked with use something other than Internet Explorer. It just doesn't happen, and I can't even count the times I've had to dumb down layouts because the requirements to overcome IE's limitations weren't worth the time investment.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#13

Post by tptacek »

rbritton wrote: post #12

Nearly every selector used in that mockup either: 1. Flat-out doesn't work in Internet Explorer; or 2. Requires certain hacks to align Internet Explorer's rendering with more compliant browsers. I can understand how it's much nicer to have a functional prototype, but I can't agree with it being worth the difference in the time invested. Very, very few clients I've ever worked with use something other than Internet Ex…

You may be missing the point. 100% of a mockup done in Photoshop won't render in IE. It's a mockup.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#14

Post by rbritton »

tptacek wrote: post #13
rbritton wrote: post #12

Nearly every selector used in that mockup either: 1. Flat-out doesn't work in Internet Explorer; or 2. Requires certain hacks to align Internet Explorer's rendering with more compliant browsers. I can understand how it's much nicer to have a functional prototype, but I can't agree with it being worth the difference in the time invested. Very, very few clients I've ever worked with use something other than Internet Ex…

You may be missing the point. 100% of a mockup done in Photoshop won't render in IE. It's a mockup.

My point is that building a prototype that won't render correctly in IE (i.e., the browser likely in use by the commissioning client) as it's described in that article is counter-productive. If the client can't see it as it's intended, what's the point?

Building up the prototype to a point where it is universally compatible will have two end results:

1. The designer is building multiple functional pages and putting in all the labor required.

2. The designer is providing the client with a nearly fully-functional page/site prior to full payment being received.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#15

Post by jamesbritt »

Zarathu wrote: post #4

The problem with mocking something up in XML/HTML is that you're particularly limited because you're forced to think in boxes. Photoshop doesn't put that restraint on you.

FTFA: "In the past we’ve put up with Photoshop because it was vital to achieving our beloved rounded corners, drop shadows, outer glows, and gradients."

No. Drawing tools beat markup because it's usually faster to draw (and redraw) a layout than to work out the markup. More so if you are looking for a very particular arrangement.

Working right in HTML it's easy to get stuck in a design because you can't quite figure out how to make something look just so. You tend to use the markup that's most familiar.

One risk to using a graphics tool: if you're busy with the rounded corners, drop shadows, outer glows, and gradients you end up with a design that is near impossible to accurately achieve with markup. Better to treat Photoshop as a robust set of pencil and paper you can save to disk.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#16

Post by krav »

ahlatimer wrote: post #8
Tyheam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is simple, sure. But "hideous on the eyes"?

I tend to agree that the design of HN isn't all that great. It's simple and usable, but it's not the easiest on the eyes. I've seen simple sites that were also beautiful. The design isn't what really matter on HN, though. The community is what's beautiful, so I can ignore the fairly uninspired design.

"The community is what's beautiful." You nailed it.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#17

Post by jrockway »

dcurtis wrote: post #3

Wow, this is exactly how not to design. Separating layout and content is a mistake. Content should be inextricably linked to how it is presented. This is what design means; it means taking content and displaying it in an understandable and pleasing way. Every piece of content desires to be presented differently. This is exactly why CSS is such a horrible pile crap. It trains designers to separate content from present…

"Better" was the web before there was CSS. Black background, white text. Links. That was all anyone needed.

Now the web is the equivalent of a coffee-table book. Glossy and colorful, but expensive and lacking any substantial content.

Re: Make Your Mockup in Markup

#18

Post by innovate »

I've found pen and paper to be the most flexible way to go. There is also something to be said about clients reactions to quick and dirty layouts done on paper... its more collaborative and inspires innovation more so than specific tools like photoshop or markup layouts allow for.
Post reply on HN