What is going on with SoundCloud? • Hacker News Board

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#11

Post by prodmerc » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:21 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

And then they send DMCAs to your hosting company and you get your hosting account suspended. Yeah, gotta fix the system...

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#12

Post by stefantalpalaru » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:24 PM UTC

The root of all evil is blind trust in algorithms, usually by people that don't write algorithms themselves - people in charge.

We can't be both watched over by machines of loving grace and at the same time deal fairly and respectfully with each human user. I hope SoundCloud is not too big to fully pay the price of its arrogance and fade into oblivion.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#13

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:25 PM UTC

prodmerc wrote: post #11

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

And then they send DMCAs to your hosting company and you get your hosting account suspended. Yeah, gotta fix the system...

In my experience, it's easier to explain to your hosting company than to a company with no meaningful mechanism for appeal. The system definitely needs to be fixed - I'm just proposing practical solutions in the interim. It seems unlikely to me that these problems will be fixed any time soon since fixing them would run counter to the agenda of those with the resources to lobby politicians.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#14

Post by jcadam » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:28 PM UTC

Every time a new idea for a site/app/etc. involving 'music' and the 'internet' occurs to me (or is suggested to me), I immediately reject it out of hand: "Nope, DMCA/RIAA/ASCAP/etc. -- too risky."

P.S. Take a look sometime at ASCAP's requirements and fees/rates for digital music services -- it's insane. I don't know how any service could keep ASCAP placated and turn a profit.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#15

Post by coldpie » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:40 PM UTC

haywirez wrote: post #8

Regarding self-hosting, could anyone share some technical links related to streaming? Are there good/easy ways to interactively 'chunk-stream' audio without giving away the entire file (without Flash...)?

I think the new(-ish) MediaStream APIs are designed precisely for this.

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/streams/StreamProc...

The simple audio element itself might be sufficient.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#16

Post by deng » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:45 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

Self-hosting is a huge PITA, especially if you don't want to give away your music for free: setting up and maintaining a streaming server and payment system is not trivial at all. Also, if you're not already a big name, self-hosting will make it unlikely for people to discover your music. This was the big thing about SoundCloud: you followed people you like and saw what they liked. The solution is what Bandcamp does: only host stuff where the copyright situation is clear. Which means: people selling the music they themselves created. This of course excludes mixes/remixes of copyrighted music.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#17

Post by theseatoms » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:48 PM UTC

Doesn't the fact that they're based in Germany protect them from DMCA takedowns? I always figured that locating there was a calculated move, giving them a strategic advantage on this front.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#18

Post by mrottenkolber » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 12:49 PM UTC

globuous wrote: post #6

mrottenkolber wrote: post #4

So I upload a DJ mix and it gets rejected because of "Copyright blah blah". Then I fill out the form and tell them "Guys, it's a DJ mix, not the song you claim it to be". I never received a response. So I guess SoundCloud is no longer for me.

What are the laws on using copyrighted material in mixes do you know ? I know Sound of Monte Carlo's soundcloud (they uplaod monthly mixes or w/e) is about to be taken down, they do use copyrighted material in their mixes though.

No idea about the legal situation. And to be frank I don't care. I have no economic incentive for my hobby. I consider it an art and a means of expression along the lines of singing and dancing. For all I care I am doing commercial musicians a favor for promoting their work, but really that's just an unintended side effect. SoundCloud was profiting of me giving away free content. Its people like me that enabled its business in the first place. So in the end its their loss, and they will fail because of the laws. I personally don't mourn the loss of SoundCloud as a viable publishing platform. I have many choices and it was never my primary platform to begin with (which is an independent pirate radio).

My point is that the laws don't stop the people doing the "infringing". We don't care. Its the businesses that could profit from the human need for creativity that are hurt by the absurd situation.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#19

Post by rtpg » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 1:03 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

You do know that the DMCA applies even when you're self-hosting right?

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#20

Post by tel » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

deng wrote: post #16

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

Self-hosting is a huge PITA, especially if you don't want to give away your music for free: setting up and maintaining a streaming server and payment system is not trivial at all. Also, if you're not already a big name, self-hosting will make it unlikely for people to discover your music. This was the big thing about SoundCloud: you followed people you like and saw what they liked. The solution is what Bandcamp does:…

So you're saying there's space for a "DIY self-hosting" product which integrates with a promotion network?